Will a 4G filter solve my interference problems

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We started to get interference problems about a year ago on Freeview non HD ITV and associated channels. Had new aerial feed which seemed to solve the problem for about 3 weeks but then it came back. Spoke to the aerial guy who said it seemed like mobile phone interference an suggested I spoke to at800. Did this and computer said no.

The problem disappears if I watch any ITV channel though our dvd recorder so I'm guessing that it amplifies the signal in the box ?

Did a bit of digging online which suggested the problem might go away with the recent retune so I waited hoping this might solve the problem. Unfortunately it's still there so is this something that a 4G filter could solve ? If so any recommended makes please.

I was hoping to finally upgrade our very old 720p set in time for the world cup but can't get buy in from higher management until this is fixed. Any advice appreciated
 
Okay, so it's not the recorder adding it. That's good to know.

It's cheap enough to try a 4G filter. Ot won't hurt the system. All it does is block signals above ch59.

I take it you've checked the fitment of any aerial plugs?

Slightly more complex is atmospheric interference where a distant signal bounces off the underside of the ionosphere and reaches an aerial when it's beyond normal range. This is called Ionic Propagation. Normally see this at certain times of day though rather than constantly.

More likely is an aerial amp or power supply going intermittent, or a poorly ificshielded fly lead picking up interference, or a damaged cable acting as a notch filter where is affects only a specific frequency range.

Harder to diagnose issues could be the new Free view frequencies moving to a lower part of the spectrum where your current aerial isn't designed to work that well. Do you know how to use the TV tuning menu to see what channel your IT signals come in on to the TV?

Thanks for that. I've tried swapping the leads from the aerial to the TV with others I'd already got but that didn't help unfortunately. The TV guy did make up a new lead when he put the aerial feed in as he said the cab,e he was using was better quality than I'd already got.

I'm afraid I don't know how to check what channel the ITV signal is via the TV but if you could offer generic advice on how to find out that would be great. I'm guessing it's buried in the tuning menu somewhere? If it helps we use the Tacolneston transmitter.

Thanks for taking the time to assist. It's much appreciated. I'm loathe to get the aerial guy out again as it costs me £45 a go and I get the feeling it's a bit like when the garage can't diagnose the fault in your car and they keep trying things in the hope of getting lucky
 
Lucid

Thanks for the detailed reply. I had a look via the manual tunine menu an all the channels you listed are 10 an 10 for strength and quality, with the exception of CH 50 at 706 MHZ which shows strength 10 but no quality at all. Hopefully this may help narrow down the issue ?
 
you might want to check that the channels you are tuned too/watching are the from the muxes lucid listed, since if you had an automatic re-tune it could have taken some from another transmitter. (Aunt had this, and unscrupulous company sold her another aerial)

I guess you spoke to neigbours too.
If you could steer me in an approximate direction on how to check the channels that would be great please. I seem to have an idea it's buried in the manual tuning menu ?

I did try an ask the neighbours but they are pretty much all satellite
 
on a panasonic setup->DVB tuning->Signal Condition
tells me channel# for currently viewed station

-- what is the tv ?
Thanks it's a very old 720p Panasonic. I can't fight my way to the back to dig out the model no at the moment

Based on this Ch55 = BBC 1 & 2, Ch59 = ITV, Channel 4 & 5, Ch42 = ITV 3, Ch45 = Dave, I can't find any programmes on Ch50 although in the manual tuning menu it's signal strength 10 but quality 0.

Have I mistuned
 
if those stations are on those channels then it is tuned OK to tacolneston;
you could get film4+1 from Ch50, which has mostly full hd channels, but with an older HD ready/720 tv it may not have a dvb-t2/fullhd receiver

..... so lucids' advice stands,

but since it is only three weeks since install nonetheless, does not seem unreasonable the installer should guarantee his work and call by for free to diagnose problem.
it could be changing atmospheric conditions since the install that are causing the issue, which installer should have anticipated.
Sorry if you've misunderstood, the problem has existed for about a year and I got fed up with call ingredients the guy out. I had hoped that with the retune the problem might have gone away but unfortunately not
 
Thanks Lucid for taking the time to assist with this. The aerial guy turned up with a signal box similar to the one in your earlier post rather than those shown above. If I explain the situation that may put it a bit more into context.
We moved into the house about 5 years ago and he fitted a new aerial plus booster box in the loft. At that time he said that the TV aerial leads installed in the walls were not of the same quality he would currently use. However the signals would provide a decent picture but just to be aware of this and also that aerial cables do degrade with time.

Everything went well until about a year ago when we started to get break up on the TVs upstairs and downstairs. He came out and fitted a new booster and this solved the issue for a couple of days at which time I couldn't get a picture at all on the downstairs TV - total pixellation. He came out and suggested that the aerial cable had degraded to the lounge and fitted a new feed which fixed the issue for a couple of weeks. This is when we.started to get the interference on ITV. I rang him up and said he had several calls so thought it was possibly mobile phone mast issues and referred me to at800. He said if this didn't help he could come out and have another look but would have to charge me a call out.

I'm guessing that I may be a victim of coincidences but given I could resolve the issue by turning on the DVD recorder it was something I could live with and I wasn't inclined to chuck any more money at that time
 
Another thing you might do -
if you have a decent piece of fly-lead with connectors you have checked, connect the tv directly to the aerial before the amplifier box -
lucid already suggestet this, but I had had an amplifier that failed in the loft.
Thanks for that. Unfortunately I don't have a suitable length of lead. I don't think its an amplifier problem as the TV upstairs is working well ...famous last words. I've just been notified the attenuator is on its way so will report back soon
 
Yarkanoid

Thanks for your input. That's exactly what's happening so I'm hoping the attenuator I was recommended on here will sort out the issue.

To get the purchase of a new TV past the senior financial controller I need to get this issue solved first. I have to agree with her that it doesn't really make sense to splash out a not inconsiderable sum on a new TV (plus new DVD player) if you can't even watch ITV. If I at least can get this working I can then move on to phase 2 which is moving the BT recording box downstairs, which I think will require the use of power line adapters..... but that's a whole new issue. Don't you just love technology ??!!!
 
Well having tested out the attenuator I am pleased to report it seems to have fixed the issue ;).

I would like to thank those who have taken the time and effort to help me solve this issue. Great forum !!!
 
Well having tested out the attenuator I am pleased to report it seems to have fixed the issue ;).

I would like to thank those who have taken the time and effort to help me solve this issue. Great forum !!!
Just as you thought it was safe etc etc the interference has returned...... grr

I have the variable attenuated on max so estimate signal strength about 8 with quality still at 10. The interference is now not so frequent or severe. Is there any other potentially cheap fix or will I have to get the aerial guy out ?
 
How frequently/times-of-day does the problem occur, and if you reduce the attenuation/remove-it do you get much more of the same type of interference ?

which attenuator did you get ? (I had spec'd a constant one https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B003YKSRRG rather than a variable from an anonymous brand)

... you still need to eliminate the tv's .. so swapping the tv's would show whether lounge tv would have the same problem in the bedrooom and vice-versa
Thanks for your help I'll have a go at bringing the upstairs set down but may have to wait for the weekend.
On my phone at the moment so will link to the attenuator I got when I get home.
I don't watch TV during the day so have done limited testing at the weekend - there's only so much rerun of light entertainment I can stand ! However from a totally unscientific test the issue appears to get worse in the evenings say from 20:00 onwards
 
Just a quick recap

- You live somewhere in the Anglia TV region
- Your main transmitter is Tacolneston
- You have a loft aerial
- There's a multi-way splitter fitted in the loft too
- The house had aerial cable installed in-wall by the house builder, but you've had a new piece run by an aerial guy which did temporarily fix the interference issue [this could be coincidental]
- The issue affects only the lounge TV
- The issue affects only Mux c59 (PSB2 D3+4)
- Signal strength and signal quality were both at 10 on the Panasonic TV's meter
- You've done the postcode checker at 4G AT800 and it predicts no issue with mobile phone mast interference
- Following advice here, you've bought and fitted a variable attenuator. It is set to max. Signal strength 8, Quality 10. This improved things for a while but now you've got some interference creeping in again
- The issue is worse at night


My gut reaction is you've still got too much signal coming off the aerial. Solution: Add a 10dB attenuator and turn down the variable until the problem stops. i.e you might need 22dB of attenuation, so the variable alone (if it's a 20dB attenuator) isn't quite enough. If you look at the sensitivity of a typical wideband high-gain aerial they have a rising hump (see the graph in post #6). That means they put out most signal strength at the upper-end of the channel range. Look at how that tallies with your experience: Your issue is with c59, but not 55 or any of the other lower channel numbers. But that's not the whole story.

Adding a 10dB in-line attenuator is easy. However, you run the risk of fixing one problem and causing another elsewhere.

Referring back to that sensitivity graph in post #6, you can see that the wideband high-gain aerial is poor at lower frequencies. Your family's main TV is already picking up on c45 and c42, but you seemed to be missing out on c39 before the attenuator was fitted. Throwing in yet more attenuation could put c42 & 45 at risk as well.

With this in mind, and factoring in that over the next couple of year all the channel space from c49 to c60 will be cleared ready to be sold off to mobile phone companies, then the outlook for your current aerial isn't great. All the TV transmitters will eventually go to frequencies that are c48 and lower. It's ironic that it'll fix your c59 reception issue, and probably move those channels to somewhere you can't get a signal.

The bottom line is that sooner or later, just like tens of thousands of other homes in the UK, a wideband high-gain aerial of the type being sold as a "universal aerial" for the last 20 years is going to become junk. A Log Periodic aerial is good for now and for the future when the channels all move to c48 or lower. Fitting a Log now will also fix the over-saturation at c59.


There are two other areas I'd look at just to dot the I's and cross the T's.

1) The aerial position in the loft. Ideally, move the aerial to outside. But if it has to be in the loft because of some covenant on the building then the installer must really spend some time measuring and mapping out the signal levels across the loft space. It's not enough to assume that the middle of the loft is the best place.

2) House builders use cheap aerial gear. That goes for the wall socket plates as well as for cable. If you haven't already had it changed, swap out the wall plate for a shielded version.


Finally, the time of day (or night) could indicate that your site is experiencing a phenomenon called tropospheric propagation. ("What?" I hear you say :D ) It's radio signals (and yes, TV is part of the radio spectrum) bouncing off a boundary layer within the atmosphere. Folk who listen to short-wave radio take advantage of this phenomenon all the time. Due to the curvature of the earth there's no direct line of sight to distance places such as Russia, and since radio signals only travel in straight lines then it shouldn't be possible to pick up from- or transmit to- places beyond the horizon. The surprising thing is that the horizon is much closer than you think. For a 6ft tall person at ground level it's only about 3 miles away. This is why transmitters are very tall and why getting the receiving aerial up high makes a difference.

TV signals work at much longer wavelengths than SW radio, so this bouncing effect is far less pronounced. A lot of the signal just passes straight through the atmosphere on on eventually in to space. However, in the right conditions then the signal from distant transmitters can be detected, and the signal from local transmitters can become a little bit stronger. Night time is typically when this happens. The result; if your signal was already borderline 'too much' then this small boost could be enough to tip the balance.

Thanks for taking the time to explain all this. I do like to try an understand why things happen - try being the operative word. Just to correct a couple of points :

The aerial is outside attached to our chimney the splitter an booster is in the loft

The new aerial feed doesn't have a plate the cable comes in through the wall with a grommet to seal around d the hole inside.

Based on what you have said I think I will get another attenuator - if it creates more problems than I can always run ITV through the digital recorder. It drops the quality a touch but on an old 720 TV I can live with that. If I get a new TV then I can budget for a new aerial as you suggest
 
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