Win XP 64

megatron · 7 May 2007 at 17:19

Datamonkey said:
megatron
what you on about saying it wont the bf2's cd check?

Yes thats "what" I "on about", in my experience it failed at the CD check in 64-bit. Try not to start your posts with "what you on about", its generally considered offensive.

Psyk said:
What are you on about? That will only happen if you are playing DRM protected media. It's not going to affect overall performance.

Again dont tell me "what are you on about", Im not used to being talked to like that. Please read the rest of my post.

NVIDIA_x64 · 7 May 2007 at 17:25

And I don t know what all this stuff is to do with BF2's CD check I run XP x64 and vista x64 and running BF2 Cool with no probs.

csmager · 7 May 2007 at 17:26

megatron said:
Again dont tell me "what are you on about", Im not used to being talked to like that. Please read the rest of my post.

Nothing else in your post develops that point.

Psyk is quite correct. Any overhead involved with the decryption of DRM will only apply when using DRM content. It's not going to affect the performance of the PC as a whole.

And the constant driver polling you mention is also only carried out while playing DRM protected content - and I think you'll find NathanE did know about it.

(see here for the word from the horses mouth: http://download.microsoft.com/download/5/D/6/5D6EAF2B-7DDF-476B-93DC-7CF0072878E6/output_protect.doc pp.11)

NathanE · 7 May 2007 at 17:39

megatron said:
Did u know that Vista polls all its drivers constantly to check that they havent been modified? Didnt think so...

I do know about that actually. It's called PatchGuard. It doesn't poll every device driver it simply checks a few critical kernel data structures in memory to ensure they haven't been modified. This has been present in all Windows 64-bit OSes, not just Vista. It's not even usually considered as being part of the DRM subsystems. Most will praise it for increasing security and protecting against rootkits. Nobody has thus far blamed it for causing performance problems. You are the first I've seen

The only drivers that must report back to the DRM subsystem when HD content is playing are graphics, sound and the cd-rom drivers. They have to report any "suspicious" events that could indicate hacking or modification of the driver or its hardware. The DRM subsystem reserves the right to stop playback if too many alerts come into it. Again, these types of checks are hardly sucking any measurable processing power.. but more importantly they only come into effect when playing DRM'd content.

In contrast XP checks drivers on install, and tries to replace it if its not recognised. It does it once.

Are you talking about Windows File Protection? Vista has this, albeit much improved. WFP is implemented using a file system filter (so it knows when a file has been modified/deleted) so there is no polling going on.

The DRM has a performance overhead with all the encryption going on in the background.

Source? Hell, even just a reason? Pre-Vista OSes didn't support playback of HD DRM-protected content (which is all current BluRay and HDDVD titles...). It's an entirely new feature so you can't even draw performance comparisons. There is simply nothing to compare it to in order to come to that conclusion. The DRM subsystems of Vista only come to life when beginning playback of DRM'd content so it's not like they are constantly running sucking processing power...

By the way, HDDVD and BluRay discs are encrypted. The actual data on the disc that is... So of course at some stage it has to be decrypted. No way getting around that... Encryption is expensive, decryption isn't. That's why the discs come pre-encrypted. It is then decrypted by your HDCP-compatible display device.

rob5ta · 7 May 2007 at 17:47

removed

csmager · 7 May 2007 at 17:49

rob5ta said:
To answer the original question, * have XP64 OEM in stock priced at £89.99. Cheapest ive found it.... And i fully recommend it. Absolutely cracking

And to point out why the original question wasn't answered, they're competitors. So i'd get rid of that.

rob5ta · 7 May 2007 at 18:04

csmager said:
And to point out why the original question wasn't answered, they're competitors. So i'd get rid of that.

Fair enough, didnt think it would matter in this case as they dont stock it anymore. Apologies anyway... didnt mean to ruffle anyones feathers

Psyk · 7 May 2007 at 18:10

megatron said:
Again dont tell me "what are you on about", Im not used to being talked to like that. Please read the rest of my post.

Ok next time instead of phrasing it as a question, I'll be more to the point and just say "you're talking crap".

Dureth · 7 May 2007 at 18:17

I'm sorry to say megatron but you are spraying FUD all over the show in this post. NathanE has made an excellent post with massive amounts of detail. Please read what he has said as he just saved me a huge amount of time now that I don't have to write all that out.

megatron · 7 May 2007 at 18:19

Psyk said:
Ok next time instead of phrasing it as a question, I'll be more to the point and just say "you're talking crap".

Thats brave of you.

megatron · 7 May 2007 at 18:22

Dureth said:
I'm sorry to say megatron but you are spraying FUD all over the show in this post. NathanE has made an excellent post with massive amounts of detail. Please read what he has said as he just saved me a huge amount of time now that I don't have to write all that out.

There are articals 100 x the size telling of how Vista isnt the greatest thing since sliced bread.

We are now just talking about the bad points. Sell vista to me. Talk about its good points. I already mentioned it having dx10 but that isnt a good point its blackmail....

NathanE · 7 May 2007 at 18:34

Why should anyone but Microsoft want to sell Vista to you? :confused:

We can only tell you where you've got too wrapped up in the media FUD and hype. We can't tell you why an upgrade to Vista is going to improve your computing experience. That is something you need to research for yourself.

It's unfortunate that you view DX10's exclusivity in Vista as blackmail. Again though, a little research on the subject (even on these very forums) and you will probably change your tone

gareth170 · 7 May 2007 at 18:46

NathanE said:
We can only tell you where you've got too wrapped up in the media FUD and hype. We can't tell you why an upgrade to Vista is going to improve your computing experience. That is something you need to research for yourself.

your right..

i keep telling people, we can only say how it runs on our systems.. its impossible to know if it will run on another system well or not. thats because no 2 systems are the same, each act difficulty...

Datamonkey · 7 May 2007 at 18:47

Psyk said:
Ok next time instead of phrasing it as a question, I'll be more to the point and just say "you're talking crap".

lol i agree with you,

anyone who gets wound up because i say what are you on about. as in yes you megatron, needs to have their head examined

Text on a forum can be taken anyway you like, if you take offence to it then fine. I said what are you on about, because i was talking to you

and yes i would use it on the street also. keyboard or no keyboard present

megatron · 7 May 2007 at 19:36

Ok NathanE thinks I need to know something about Vista I dont. Thats your opinion but I believe I know what you are talking about, Im not going to spell it out.

As for generally being rude when discussing a technical subject on a forum, you have already lost the argument.

deadeyedic30 · 7 May 2007 at 20:32

Dear god what have i started !!!! It's open verbal warfare in here.

stickroad · 7 May 2007 at 20:33

deadeyedic30 said:
Dear god what have i started !!!! It's open verbal warfare in here.

ROFL, what have you done deadeyedic30, you started a violent, cruel, unnecessary war.

Datamonkey · 8 May 2007 at 08:52

deadeyedic,

your name sounds like summat from a western and you opened up the ko corral

Dureth · 8 May 2007 at 09:23

Break open the WMD's, this one is getting terroristic!

On a more serious note NathanE and I have not said a single offensive thing to you megatron. We have kept our analysis purly to the technical side of things. The closest might have been to say that your opinion seems to have been swayed rather a lot by the anti-MS arguement to the detriment of a balanced view on the subject.

MS Vista has bad points such as poor performance on low end systems with less than 1GB of RAM, a lack of obvious changes on the surface, the seemingly stupid pricing compared to USA versions and the poor driver compatibility at current times, we all accept that.

However we also accept that it has some good point, especially on the side of things such as security, driver isolation, performance on mid-high end systems and if you need such tools the backup utilities are far better than Windows has ever had bundled with before (note I didn't say any OS, I know that other OS's have some quite great backup software as default, baby steps people).

I think its time for megatron to make a reply and make his point then maybe we should let this thread die, its going no-where fast. You can have the last word megatron.