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Will Microsoft admit Windows 8 is a failure or will they just plough on and pretend it never existed?
Windows 8 Adoption Poor
- Thread starter philip2009
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Will Microsoft admit Windows 8 is a failure or will they just plough on and pretend it never existed?
Soldato
XP still has a 39% market share? Good God.
Caporegime
The problem is getting business people to update, not home users is it not?
Soldato
the problem isn't so much windows 8 in my opinion, it's a combination of a multitude of things.
- desktops (and laptops) have been getting to the point where what you have is MORE than enough for all but the most hardcore users and this isn't a new thing when you think about it.
- we've all got less money due to current economic climate so most will only replace pc's when they have spare money
- laptops are gradually being replaced by slates, windows slates are generally more expensive than android and don't have the apple halo so will often lose out.
- windows 7 can do EVERYTHING windows 8 can do and it's familiar meaning less upheaval/change/learning needed etc so most won't bother upgrading for what is essentially a facelift to the unknowledgable user.
- businesses usually stick one version behind or wait till sp1 lol
As to visat being better after x weeks.... well xp had been around for a LONG time, windows 7 is/was still relatively young in comparison lol
- desktops (and laptops) have been getting to the point where what you have is MORE than enough for all but the most hardcore users and this isn't a new thing when you think about it.
- we've all got less money due to current economic climate so most will only replace pc's when they have spare money
- laptops are gradually being replaced by slates, windows slates are generally more expensive than android and don't have the apple halo so will often lose out.
- windows 7 can do EVERYTHING windows 8 can do and it's familiar meaning less upheaval/change/learning needed etc so most won't bother upgrading for what is essentially a facelift to the unknowledgable user.
- businesses usually stick one version behind or wait till sp1 lol
As to visat being better after x weeks.... well xp had been around for a LONG time, windows 7 is/was still relatively young in comparison lol
Soldato
A combination of the fact that most businesses won't upgrade for a long long time, and that most normal users only upgrade their OS along with their pc. As in, they only upgrade because they can only buy a pc/laptop with the new version of windows installed.
I can't comment fully on the business side of things as my knowledge of that is no where near qualified enough. But I feel I have a pretty good grasp of the normal consumer side.
I'm sure that given the choice, most normal non-pc savvy users would never upgrade their OS, and if offered, would always go for a pc with the OS they're familiar with installed on it. Even if it's XP.
The problem I've found, from working in large electrical retail stores and coming into contact with your average user on a day to day basis, is that new versions of windows never offer anything that is going to radically improve the day to day user experience from the point of view of someone that just wants word and an internet browser.
So why upgrade if there is no obvious advantage other than a fancy new start screen? It was the same story with xp to vista (most people saying "oh, it's a prettier version of xp with a thicker task bar and a gadget thing on the side") and with vista to 7 (although, more people were happier going to 7 as it was obvious that 7 fixed a lot of issues that people had with vista, but was nothing to do with new features).
Personally, I quite like windows 8, but only because I know all the tricks about getting the most out of it and where things have moved to. Every time I speak to a customer about 8, I find they have little to no knowledge about it, and are either upgrading an old pc or are buying new for a family member.
I rarely, if ever, speak to people specifically about upgrading their OS. In fact, in the entire 6 months I've been back in electrical retail, I think I've spoken to 3 people who specifically wanted to upgrade windows.
But as this is a small sector of the market compared to businesses I shall bow out for now. And yes, the company I work for still uses XP sp3 across the business
I can't comment fully on the business side of things as my knowledge of that is no where near qualified enough. But I feel I have a pretty good grasp of the normal consumer side.
I'm sure that given the choice, most normal non-pc savvy users would never upgrade their OS, and if offered, would always go for a pc with the OS they're familiar with installed on it. Even if it's XP.
The problem I've found, from working in large electrical retail stores and coming into contact with your average user on a day to day basis, is that new versions of windows never offer anything that is going to radically improve the day to day user experience from the point of view of someone that just wants word and an internet browser.
So why upgrade if there is no obvious advantage other than a fancy new start screen? It was the same story with xp to vista (most people saying "oh, it's a prettier version of xp with a thicker task bar and a gadget thing on the side") and with vista to 7 (although, more people were happier going to 7 as it was obvious that 7 fixed a lot of issues that people had with vista, but was nothing to do with new features).
Personally, I quite like windows 8, but only because I know all the tricks about getting the most out of it and where things have moved to. Every time I speak to a customer about 8, I find they have little to no knowledge about it, and are either upgrading an old pc or are buying new for a family member.
I rarely, if ever, speak to people specifically about upgrading their OS. In fact, in the entire 6 months I've been back in electrical retail, I think I've spoken to 3 people who specifically wanted to upgrade windows.
But as this is a small sector of the market compared to businesses I shall bow out for now. And yes, the company I work for still uses XP sp3 across the business
I hope you have something strongly flame retardant. Despite what the truth actually is, Glaucus et al will all be along soon to tell you that you're not giving Windows 8 a chance/it's amazing/it's the future/shut up and get over it.
Business users are always slowest to adapt,I thought Vista was great(used it from day one) as to Win8 well it can do things Win7 can't do ie comes with built in AV,Refresh and Reset,snap view,Microsoft store,DX11.1 etc....however if you going to split hairs you might as well say Linux Distro can do anything Windows can do apart from Windows gaming
anyway you get my point,personally Win8 is very good IMHO,be interesting to see how Windows Blue does since its more or less Win8 improved from what I've read.I never go by reviews or opinions on the net but judge every OS by my own standards and usage ,glad I did or I would not of enjoyed Vista, Win7,Win8 etc..(and I enjoy my Linux distro's too
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if you going to split hairs you might as well say Linux Distro can do anything Windows can do apart from Windows gaming
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that's a pretty huge problem with Linux adoption. For PC gaming, Windows really does have the market sewn up - OSX would be the closest competitor, and it's absolutely miles behind.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that's a pretty huge problem with Linux adoption. For PC gaming, Windows really does have the market sewn up - OSX would be the closest competitor, and it's absolutely miles behind.
That's why I still use Windows ie avid Windows gamer.
Btw slightly off topic just installed Jedi Academy on Win8, another older I've working great.
It could have been the best Windows ever, the vast majority of businesses still wouldn't have updated as they've only just got round to moving 7.
I don't think MS ever expected mass migration to 8, its just a market familiarization exercise.
Soldato
Windows xp released 2001 and Vista 2009, people will upgrade much quicker after an 8 year gap as the upgrade was fairly big. Windows 7 to Windows 8 to most people is very small and businesses will stay away because the metro UI will be a pain to support when it's rolled out.
MW
MW
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for me windows 8 is a better looking version of 7 that can mount isos, has native usb3 and full dx11.1, boots faster, has a built in antivirus, and has a very helpful new task manager, as well as a nice new file transfer window that can group together, pause, and show progress graphs of individual transfers. it also fixed a graphical corruption i was having, as well as a thing windows 7 does on all computers where the taskbar's graphical clock animates the second hand ticking at uneven intervals (ooh big deal... 
). the ribbon explorer ui is ok, it's neither good nor bad really as long as you keep it open to reduce clicking. other than these i haven't noticed many changes from 7 to 8.
you do have to be computer literate though - you need to disable dynamic tick (which causes occasional software hangs), and choose and install a third party start menu. you either love or hate metro (evidently most hate it on desktop) but if you install a start menu then 8 is less arguably a straight upgrade. still, it's barely worth $40/£25 tbh. full price? hell no, never.
if businesses are microsoft's core market then there's trouble. obviously a brand new barely distinguishable OS combined with some third party start menu patch isn't going to cut it for them in terms of stability or value for money. worse yet if they choose to use metro there are going to be huge decreases in productivity in the first few months of adoption.
). the ribbon explorer ui is ok, it's neither good nor bad really as long as you keep it open to reduce clicking. other than these i haven't noticed many changes from 7 to 8.you do have to be computer literate though - you need to disable dynamic tick (which causes occasional software hangs), and choose and install a third party start menu. you either love or hate metro (evidently most hate it on desktop) but if you install a start menu then 8 is less arguably a straight upgrade. still, it's barely worth $40/£25 tbh. full price? hell no, never.
if businesses are microsoft's core market then there's trouble. obviously a brand new barely distinguishable OS combined with some third party start menu patch isn't going to cut it for them in terms of stability or value for money. worse yet if they choose to use metro there are going to be huge decreases in productivity in the first few months of adoption.
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Soldato
If I couldn't have bought my copies of W8 for £14.99 each then I seriously would have doubted that I would have paid much more.
Over that of Windows 7x64 (on each of the four PC's which were "upgraded") I have found Windows 8 to be more of an inconvenience and no real advantage that I can think of over that of my previous OS.
Thankfully the Classic Start Menu has helped me restore, for me and my wife, a more familiar and functional desktop to W8 and so we have endured it.
My brothers new laptop came with W8 but he soon asked me if there was a way to boot to a familiar and traditional workspace, hence the Calssic Start Menu was installed for him. At least in hat respect he is content.
My Father in law paid (IIRC) £25 for W8 but after a couple of weeks he got a refund from MS as he found it more of an irritation than a benefit. Fortunately for him Dell reinstalled and restored his Windows 7 x64 OS for him, remotely.
After noting that it was a pricing error that MS had reduced the cost to around £45 I see that the pro version is back up to around £190. I didn't realise that it was a mistake to lower it to £45 as that, to me, seemed a sensible choice as it seems (?) the OS is not being adopted in the numbers they had hoped for.
Over that of Windows 7x64 (on each of the four PC's which were "upgraded") I have found Windows 8 to be more of an inconvenience and no real advantage that I can think of over that of my previous OS.
Thankfully the Classic Start Menu has helped me restore, for me and my wife, a more familiar and functional desktop to W8 and so we have endured it.
My brothers new laptop came with W8 but he soon asked me if there was a way to boot to a familiar and traditional workspace, hence the Calssic Start Menu was installed for him. At least in hat respect he is content.
My Father in law paid (IIRC) £25 for W8 but after a couple of weeks he got a refund from MS as he found it more of an irritation than a benefit. Fortunately for him Dell reinstalled and restored his Windows 7 x64 OS for him, remotely.
After noting that it was a pricing error that MS had reduced the cost to around £45 I see that the pro version is back up to around £190. I didn't realise that it was a mistake to lower it to £45 as that, to me, seemed a sensible choice as it seems (?) the OS is not being adopted in the numbers they had hoped for.
Kitch9 is quite right, the problem with articles like that is it tells people what they want to hear for a bit of drama and doesn't take the time to put context around the numbers.
When Windows 7 (and even Vista before it) was released Enterprise customers had been stuck on Windows XP for 5 - 8 years so as soon as there was a new alternative they started upgrades en masse very quickly.
The main problem Windows 8 has in terms of mass numbers is that most of those enterprises have either only just finished, or indeed are still completing Windows 7 migrations. There's little appetite in the middle of a triple dip recession to then commence another desktop OS update straight away. This is where the mass adoptions numbers come from. Once enthusiasts have updated and caused an initial spike in updates traditional home users are much slower to upgrade, usually only updating when they buy a new PC which could very well be on a 5 year or so cycle. This isn't a surprise to anyone.
Enterprises will adopt Windows 8 either on new devices during hardware refresh, or on touch enabled devices for particular scenarios.
Whilst people like Tute and the OP will love to declare Windows 8 is a failure, they either don't understand, or choose to ignore the all important context as it spoils a "omg the dramaz" headline.
Windows 8 is a fine OS, it's fundamentally Windows 7 (one of the most popular OS of recent years) with some updates and refinements, plus the new Modern UI start screen and environment. Unfortunately for some moving to the bottom left corner of the desktop to get a start menu without having a "start" orb there to guide them seems to confuse them. The fact that if you choose not to use modern ui apps the start screen is just a much more accessible combination of the old start menu and pining shortcuts tot he desktop in terms of functionality seems to escape the haters.
Windows 8 was never going to sell, or be as widely adopted as Windows 7 for the reasons above. It does however let MS address the touch UI market which isn't going to go away, refines W7 even further, introduces fast start etc and lays the foundations for the nest versions of Windows. If you have Windows 7 and are happy with it there's no immediate need to update to Windows 8. Some like it, some struggle with change. The days of Windows 95s start button and menu system are in the past though, much like the howls of hate when Windows 95 came out and people laughed at how unintuitive it was, particularly highlighting how to "stop" the PC by switching it off you had to press a "start" button.
Fun fact of the day with no context for the dramaz. "In the few months since release the supposedly "failed" Windows 8 has already sold more than the worlds entire Apple OSX installed base."
When Windows 7 (and even Vista before it) was released Enterprise customers had been stuck on Windows XP for 5 - 8 years so as soon as there was a new alternative they started upgrades en masse very quickly.
The main problem Windows 8 has in terms of mass numbers is that most of those enterprises have either only just finished, or indeed are still completing Windows 7 migrations. There's little appetite in the middle of a triple dip recession to then commence another desktop OS update straight away. This is where the mass adoptions numbers come from. Once enthusiasts have updated and caused an initial spike in updates traditional home users are much slower to upgrade, usually only updating when they buy a new PC which could very well be on a 5 year or so cycle. This isn't a surprise to anyone.
Enterprises will adopt Windows 8 either on new devices during hardware refresh, or on touch enabled devices for particular scenarios.
Whilst people like Tute and the OP will love to declare Windows 8 is a failure, they either don't understand, or choose to ignore the all important context as it spoils a "omg the dramaz" headline.
Windows 8 is a fine OS, it's fundamentally Windows 7 (one of the most popular OS of recent years) with some updates and refinements, plus the new Modern UI start screen and environment. Unfortunately for some moving to the bottom left corner of the desktop to get a start menu without having a "start" orb there to guide them seems to confuse them. The fact that if you choose not to use modern ui apps the start screen is just a much more accessible combination of the old start menu and pining shortcuts tot he desktop in terms of functionality seems to escape the haters.
Windows 8 was never going to sell, or be as widely adopted as Windows 7 for the reasons above. It does however let MS address the touch UI market which isn't going to go away, refines W7 even further, introduces fast start etc and lays the foundations for the nest versions of Windows. If you have Windows 7 and are happy with it there's no immediate need to update to Windows 8. Some like it, some struggle with change. The days of Windows 95s start button and menu system are in the past though, much like the howls of hate when Windows 95 came out and people laughed at how unintuitive it was, particularly highlighting how to "stop" the PC by switching it off you had to press a "start" button.
Fun fact of the day with no context for the dramaz. "In the few months since release the supposedly "failed" Windows 8 has already sold more than the worlds entire Apple OSX installed base."
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Soldato
The best thing about Windows 8 is this handy little menu, hover over the bottom left hand corner until the start picture shows up, then right click to get this menu to display
Soldato
Not surprising news at all. I'd happily use vista over this BS.
yeah it is. it's not a separate OS, it's just basically a update package for win8
No they won't admit it's terrible as its not. It's an extremely impressive OS which will be refined. The issues are underlying and would have been here regardless of what win8 looked like. The worst thing MS could ever do is go back words, that would be signing their own death warrant. Combine that with what Marco has said and numbers are directly comparable. Machines don't need upgrading these days, if they do, it's usually not about specs, but form factor. In which case you buy ipad/android. Corporations have only just upgraded to W7 despite that w8 seems to be going against the trend and having better luck in corporations than general public. Not much of a surprise when you look at the way the market and world has changed. Corporations know they need mobile computing especially for mobile workers, win8 tablets are fantastic for this as you don't need to support many Os and thus less apps and easier to port.
Desktops are rapidly becoming resident to a huge portion of scoiety, a new Os was never going to revitalise the desktop market. Desktops and laptops use to be the only choice and of course Ms had that sown up. tablets and smart phones now make up a much much larger market than desktops/laptops. mS have failed to capatalise on this, despite knowing they have to.
Windows tablets are still hard to get with little choice.
They're reasonably expensive and sporting old tech(tegra 3), or missing tech (3G/4g high res screens). There cpu partners for x86 failed to come to market in time with AMD temeash and intel haswell.
MS absolutely have to gain marketshare in mobile computing hence windows 8. But they stuffed the launch up completely and even now they are still stuffing it up.
We need well designed tablets at comparable or preferably just below ipad prices for WinRT and we need to be able to buy them and they need to be in the vast majority of phone/computer shops and also available on 3G/4g contract.
Desktops are rapidly becoming resident to a huge portion of scoiety, a new Os was never going to revitalise the desktop market. Desktops and laptops use to be the only choice and of course Ms had that sown up. tablets and smart phones now make up a much much larger market than desktops/laptops. mS have failed to capatalise on this, despite knowing they have to.
Windows tablets are still hard to get with little choice.
They're reasonably expensive and sporting old tech(tegra 3), or missing tech (3G/4g high res screens). There cpu partners for x86 failed to come to market in time with AMD temeash and intel haswell.
MS absolutely have to gain marketshare in mobile computing hence windows 8. But they stuffed the launch up completely and even now they are still stuffing it up.
We need well designed tablets at comparable or preferably just below ipad prices for WinRT and we need to be able to buy them and they need to be in the vast majority of phone/computer shops and also available on 3G/4g contract.
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Soldato
I'd just love to know how Windows 8 can gain more % change in market share than any other operating system, and yet adoption be described as standstill? Do people really take these authors seriously?
And if you love market share stats, Windows 8 is ranked #2 in the Steam hardware survey.
A couple of inconvenient truths there, sorry.
People write and read into stats too much. You can skew them pretty much any way you like. They're fun for five minutes, but just move on.
And if you love market share stats, Windows 8 is ranked #2 in the Steam hardware survey.
A couple of inconvenient truths there, sorry.
People write and read into stats too much. You can skew them pretty much any way you like. They're fun for five minutes, but just move on.