Windows iSCSI for Backups.

BoomAM

BoomAM

BoomAM

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Hi,
Im trying to come up with a cheap reliable way to backup a variety of servers.

We have a server with 8Tb of storage in it purely for backups only.
My best idea for backups on the cheap is to create multiple iSCSI targets on the backup server for each server that needs backing up, then using iSCSI initiators to map the drives to each server, then whatever version of windows backup they use, do the relevant backup to that iSCSI drive. With the SQL server needing an extra iSCSI drive for SQL backups as 2008 Windows Backup(non R2) doesnt wipe the transaction logs. :(

Then, and this is where i need some input, i need a way to archive the targets off to external disks without causing problems. I would assume that theres some sort of script i could write that would tell the targets to 'dismount', allowing me to copy to an external disk, then remount? Or would VSS get around this for me...?

Thoughts & input very much appriciated. :)

Thanks.
 
SQL you should do a maintenance plan, which will clear down the logs and create you a nice .bak file. This can easily be robocopied off to another location, or go straight to a UNC share.

Can't say I've had much experience of using built in backup options (always used 3rd part tools netbackup / backupexec). Does ntbackup not support unc shares? Seems a bit OTT going iSCSI.

Edit

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc770266(WS.10).aspx

You can no longer back up to tape. (However, support of tape storage drivers is still included in Windows Server 2008.) Windows Server Backup supports backing up to external and internal disks, DVDs, and shared folders.
Click to expand...

I don't see the point in iSCSI at all now...
 
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BoomAM said:
As said, only Windows Backup R2 can goto remote servers without using scripts (hard to monitor progress).
Click to expand...

No, you said it doesn't clear down SQL logs, but SQL will do that if you use SQL to do the backups.

wbadmin can go to remote unc shares.
 
ecksmen said:
No, you said it doesn't clear down SQL logs, but SQL will do that if you use SQL to do the backups.

wbadmin can go to remote unc shares.
Click to expand...
Yeah, so to get a complete backup, Windows Backup to take main image of system to iSCSI 1, SQL Maintenance Backup to clear logs/take extra DB Backup to iSCSI 2.

Wbadmin only does it via scripting, not via the GUI, so hence, i cant monitor whats going on, speed, etc;

Tempted to give DPM a try tbh, we can get it for free anyway...
 
Off the top of my head, at the moment, just one:

I take it that DPM works something like BackupExec, as in theres a application on a host server, and agents on the other servers. And together with the settings in the host server, they pull the data as required?

I'll probably have more depending on your answer to the above and as i begin faffing with it. :p
 
oddjob62 said:
Correct.
Click to expand...
Interesting....but i'd imagine that unlike BackupExec, when you select the shadow agent to use it actually either A) works or B) uses it. :p

Is there any faffing to set it up? Or is it literally as simple as BackupExec? (Install host, push out agents, set schedule/options, done?).
Or is there a lot of faffing a-la SCCM style? Where it takes a good few hours to get to the point where its even realistically usable. (i know SCCM isnt a backup product. :p).

What about storage and secondary backups?
Can it be set to backup to a data drive on the host server, then at intervals, archive that data off to a USB disk or somewhere else?

Virtualisation support, HyperV only or can it interface with vSphere?
Or would the way around that just been to stick an agent in each of the VMs instead...?

Thanks.
 
BoomAM said:
Interesting....but i'd imagine that unlike BackupExec, when you select the shadow agent to use it actually either A) works or B) uses it. :p
No, you need to push/install the agent on the protected servers. It uses whatever VSS writer it needs (sql, exchange, etc).

Is there any faffing to set it up? Or is it literally as simple as BackupExec? (Install host, push out agents, set schedule/options, done?).
Or is there a lot of faffing a-la SCCM style? Where it takes a good few hours to get to the point where its even realistically usable. (i know SCCM isnt a backup product. :p).
Not touched BE in over 5 years. But DPM is pretty easy to install. Install, push agent to protected servers, create protection group, schedule backup times.

What about storage and secondary backups?
Can it be set to backup to a data drive on the host server, then at intervals, archive that data off to a USB disk or somewhere else?
Backups to USB are not supported without 3rd party software (Firestreamer is the usual recommendation). It's backup to local disk and/or backup to tape. You can have a secondary server that backs up your primary, we have 2 servers at different locations, and have some things backed up from one to the other for DR.

Virtualisation support, HyperV only or can it interface with vSphere?
Or would the way around that just been to stick an agent in each of the VMs instead...?
Yes. There's no issue with putting the agents on your VMs, but to get the full benefits you need to be using HyperV, where you can backup a full VM as a single entity.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks,
I'll have to have a google for a good getting started guide and then give it a crack when the rest of the hardware turns up. Here's hoping it goes hunky dory! :)
 
Right.
In, configured (i think) and setup.
Few questions:

Am i correct in thinking that:
- Retention Range is when it decides to start overwriting data?
- Sync Frequency is how often it looks for changes to the server being backed up?
- File Recovery Point is when it backs up the file system?
- App recovery point is when it backs up the apps at an 'app level', like Exch & SQL?


Also:
When it backs up/does its app recovery point, does it clear Exch/SQL Transaction logs or do i still need to do them with a SQL Maintenance plan?
Because if it doesnt, then i may just change the frequency of those points from every hour to every day.

Is there a free way to get a USB disk to appear as a tape library to DPM, as i know its not supported by the software itself, so i assume some virtual tape library software would be needed.

Thanks in advance all. :)
 
- Retention Range is when it decides to start overwriting data?
Yes, it will keep grabbing space if it needs. Any recovery points older than the retention range will be cleared.

- Sync Frequency is how often it looks for changes to the server being backed up?
Yes. in Ex/SQL this also does the equivalent of an incremental backup (log backup). So if you sync every 1h, you can restore to 1h points in time.

- File Recovery Point is when it backs up the file system?
Yes. Flat files will be backed up at this time (in the same way as shadow copy)

- App recovery point is when it backs up the apps at an 'app level', like Exch & SQL?
With Ex/Sql this is the equivalent of a full backup, essentially it takes a vss snapshot of the entire database. It still only transfers bit level changes, so it's known as an "express full" backup. This schedule also includes Hyper-V VMs and System State.

When it backs up/does its app recovery point, does it clear Exch/SQL Transaction logs or do i still need to do them with a SQL Maintenance plan?
Because if it doesnt, then i may just change the frequency of those points from every hour to every day.
Logs get truncated after a sync job

Is there a free way to get a USB disk to appear as a tape library to DPM, as i know its not supported by the software itself, so i assume some virtual tape library software would be needed.
No, firestreamer is the only one i've known to be recommended.

Thanks in advance all. :)
NP.
 
Thanks for the quick reply! :)

So as an example, i have our Exch & SQL servers set to do a file recovery at 7 PM & 5:30pm reflectivity, with an app recovery being done at 9pm & 9:30pm respectively. And a sync time of every hour.
That should give me relatively good backups of both should it not?

With the sync's being every hour, the data required to be backed up for the file & app backups should be smaller shouldn't it?

I'll give firestreamer a google now. :)

Also, any ideas why the data drive for one of our SQL servers wont create a recovery point but everything else works fine? The same with a lot of our Exch mailbox databases...?
 
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Odd.
Just had the server update itself, restarted it, and now DPM wont load as the service keeps crashing, and the SQL part of it wont start because of a login error! wtf!:(

##EDIT##
Fixed. Another remnant of my predecessor, GP refreshed and set the local login as a service setting to specific users. :( Once that had the DPM accounts added, all hunky dory! :)
 
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BoomAM said:
So as an example, i have our Exch & SQL servers set to do a file recovery at 7 PM & 5:30pm reflectivity, with an app recovery being done at 9pm & 9:30pm respectively. And a sync time of every hour.
That should give me relatively good backups of both should it not?

With the sync's being every hour, the data required to be backed up for the file & app backups should be smaller shouldn't it?
Click to expand...
The more often your syncs the smaller the amount of data transfered with each sync, but the file backup and the express full backup will still be the same size
 
oddjob62 said:
The more often your syncs the smaller the amount of data transfered with each sync, but the file backup and the express full backup will still be the same size
Click to expand...
Right.
So the sync will be smaller the more often it syncs, and allows a more granular restore between the other backup times if needed.
File level is a full backup at file level, always equal to the size of the data on the server.
App level is a full backup of the app, like Exch or SQL, but not the rest of the system.

Correct?

Fixed most of my errors. Just fixing a small verification issue on one of the file servers at the moment and jobs a good'en!

Quite impressed thus far. :)
 
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Some more queries/questions. :p

Q1:
The recycle bin is reporting its using a ton of custom ammounts for each of the NTFS volumes that DPM has set up, to save space, is it ok to set them all to 1Mb? Or has DPM set them to what they are for a reason?

Q2:
I thought DPM, when the protection groups are set to 'auto grow', should 'auto grow' volumes to fit backups into.
Its started erroring about it all for some reason, even though there's another 3.8Tb free on the drive...

Q3:
Sync's are meant to be smaller the more often they happen...so why with 20Gb's of Databases is it transfering 32Gb each time it syncs...?

Q4:
On-the-wire compression: Does it make much of a difference?
Im just replanning the backup times so no two jobs run at the same time, if compression can make a big difference, it'd be handy...
 
BoomAM said:
Some more queries/questions. :p

Q1:
The recycle bin is reporting its using a ton of custom ammounts for each of the NTFS volumes that DPM has set up, to save space, is it ok to set them all to 1Mb? Or has DPM set them to what they are for a reason?
Recyle bin? that's an OS issue not a DPM issue.

Q2:
I thought DPM, when the protection groups are set to 'auto grow', should 'auto grow' volumes to fit backups into.
Its started erroring about it all for some reason, even though there's another 3.8Tb free on the drive...
It should do, without knowing what error you're getting i can't say

Q3:
Sync's are meant to be smaller the more often they happen...so why with 20Gb's of Databases is it transfering 32Gb each time it syncs...?
They are set to full recovery yes? Are you looking at a sync or the express full? FYI the biggest of our hourly syncs today on our biggest database is 900meg (400gig database)

Q4:
On-the-wire compression: Does it make much of a difference?
Im just replanning the backup times so no two jobs run at the same time, if compression can make a big difference, it'd be handy...
Never tried it tbh
Click to expand...
 
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