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FatRakoon said:
The main point I was making was that its not legal, so why buy a license if your going to break the EULA?
Burnsy
Windows XP Home vs Windows XP Professional
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The main point I was making was that its not legal, so why buy a license if your going to break the EULA?
Burnsy
People need to realise that there is a massive difference between what is physically possible and what is legally possible.
That is half of the problem on this forum and many others - people assume that anything physically possible is by virtue legal.
That is not the case and in this particular case the product been offered should be avoided.
The reasons why this product should be avoided have already been explained in this thread because you are basically buying an illegal license - unless you are buying it to install on a Dell that you somehow purchased without an existing license.
Just because there is a good chance that once you've installed the product it will activate just fine over the net does not make this license any more legal.
Just because physically I can probably install an OEM copy of Windows onto a PC after I've replaced the motherboard, CPU & RAM and successfully activate it does not mean what I've done is legal.
In basic terms a non-branded OEM OS is good for the first PC you install it on.
MS define "a PC" either as the machine or motherboard.
So as long as you continue to run the same motherboard your license is valid.
As soon as that item is replaced then the license is lost with the old motherboard and a new license is required.
If however you decide to spend that little more on a retail (full or upgrade) then you can transfer the license any number of times so long as it is only ever installed on one system at any time.
If you don't care about the legality of the software then there is really not any room on this particular forum for the conversation or discussion as you cannot talk about warez or other illegal activities on these forums.
That is half of the problem on this forum and many others - people assume that anything physically possible is by virtue legal.
That is not the case and in this particular case the product been offered should be avoided.
The reasons why this product should be avoided have already been explained in this thread because you are basically buying an illegal license - unless you are buying it to install on a Dell that you somehow purchased without an existing license.
Just because there is a good chance that once you've installed the product it will activate just fine over the net does not make this license any more legal.
Just because physically I can probably install an OEM copy of Windows onto a PC after I've replaced the motherboard, CPU & RAM and successfully activate it does not mean what I've done is legal.
In basic terms a non-branded OEM OS is good for the first PC you install it on.
MS define "a PC" either as the machine or motherboard.
So as long as you continue to run the same motherboard your license is valid.
As soon as that item is replaced then the license is lost with the old motherboard and a new license is required.
If however you decide to spend that little more on a retail (full or upgrade) then you can transfer the license any number of times so long as it is only ever installed on one system at any time.
If you don't care about the legality of the software then there is really not any room on this particular forum for the conversation or discussion as you cannot talk about warez or other illegal activities on these forums.
And yet in real world you will find it's even difficult to find retailer selling full, non OEM versions of present OS' (present hosts included). I know EULA doesnt' approve OS being used on different machines, but I don't recall ever being asked at any stage by MS why OEM serial had to be used again.
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Man of Honour
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v0n said:
I can think of at least 3 high street retailers that will sell retail versions of XP, just off the top of my head.
Like stoofa, just because you can doesn't make it legal.
Burnsy
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I would be cautious of a DELL copy anyway, dell normally supply an oem 'recovery' disk rather than a true install disk. The differences are slight, but often they tack in bios checks to make sure its being installed on dell hardward.
They certainly had bios checks on Windows ME, and the first release of XP. Picked up my brothers 'DELL' xp disk by mistake once during a reinstallation, and it failed very early in in the install, as my computer isnt dell.
Either way Dell's OEM license is only valid when supplied with a Dell computer. It doesnt matter if the computer was scrapped, or if the disk was never opened. Dell systems are normally supplied with the COA sticker applied to the PC, but because they are allowed to print their own CD's they seal them up afterwards. So just because the packet is unopened, it doesnt guarantee that there isnt a dell computer already running it.
Even a 'non dell' OEM XP is somewhat dodgy, your supposed to buy a piece of non peripheral hardware from the retailer to even qualify, a mouse or a broken 8meg stick of ram doesnt count.
There are plenty of retailers who will happily sell the full retail license, and its rare that it ever fails activation. 120 days after you activate a retail copy of XP, your computer hash code is erased from the microsoft database. Effectivly if you buy a new computer every 3 months you can reuse your old copy without ever needing to phone microsoft to 'reactivate' you.
If you take the OEM route, you basically have to lie and convince them your motherboard simply blew up, and your 'repairing' your old computer.
Whatever you decide, its your choice, but dont kid yourself, goto the popular online auctions and their is a huge business in 'dodgy' OEM software. And most of it isnt worth the disk its burned on.
They certainly had bios checks on Windows ME, and the first release of XP. Picked up my brothers 'DELL' xp disk by mistake once during a reinstallation, and it failed very early in in the install, as my computer isnt dell.
Either way Dell's OEM license is only valid when supplied with a Dell computer. It doesnt matter if the computer was scrapped, or if the disk was never opened. Dell systems are normally supplied with the COA sticker applied to the PC, but because they are allowed to print their own CD's they seal them up afterwards. So just because the packet is unopened, it doesnt guarantee that there isnt a dell computer already running it.
Even a 'non dell' OEM XP is somewhat dodgy, your supposed to buy a piece of non peripheral hardware from the retailer to even qualify, a mouse or a broken 8meg stick of ram doesnt count.
There are plenty of retailers who will happily sell the full retail license, and its rare that it ever fails activation. 120 days after you activate a retail copy of XP, your computer hash code is erased from the microsoft database. Effectivly if you buy a new computer every 3 months you can reuse your old copy without ever needing to phone microsoft to 'reactivate' you.
If you take the OEM route, you basically have to lie and convince them your motherboard simply blew up, and your 'repairing' your old computer.
Whatever you decide, its your choice, but dont kid yourself, goto the popular online auctions and their is a huge business in 'dodgy' OEM software. And most of it isnt worth the disk its burned on.
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Corasik said:
This is no longer the case, you can buy an OEM license without buying hardware.
Burnsy
In an ideal world you would only be able to do legal things.
That is how we would know if what we were doing was legal - if we tried it and it worked then we would know what we were doing was fine.
However as we all know this isn't the case and whereas it is really obvious that certain things are illegal, other areas can be a lot mroe confusing.
That is why we have people who "know" so to speak.
Most of them aren't trying to be clever, taking moral high grounds etc they are simply telling you how it is, how it works - what you do with that information is up to you (and any concequence is yours alone too - remember ignorance isn't a defence).
A friend of mine downloaded some DVD movies.
I was casually talking to his wife and I said to her "So what's it like being married to a pirate then?"
It was said in jest more than anything - I'm totally against all forms of piracy but at the end of the day if I can make people aware of what they have done then I've done all I can.
Her reply - "What do you mean?"
I explained the action of her other half and she honestly thought that it must be legal.
I stood there in disbelief - how can downloading something for free that costs £10+ to buy possibly be legal, but she was of the thinking "If it is possible to do then it must be legal".
You can take this whole argument to many extremes.
"Microsoft have never asked me before when I've phoned through an EBay purchased Dell OEM copy of Windows".
No, you're quite probably right - doesn't make it legal.
"Microsoft gave me an activation code when I called up after I'd installed my OEM copy on a second PC".
Quite possible if the code hadn't been used that often - still not legal.
"The police didn't stop me at the door when I attempted to walk out of the store with a pile of DVD's in my bag"
Fine - but you know what you did wasn't legal don't you...surely.
"Nobody physically stopped me opening the car door with that crow-bar and taking the stereo"
"Nobody actually physically stopped me picking that knife up and......."
Sure we're going to an extreme and no I'm not comparing installing an OS for a second time with taking a knife to somebody, but you can see that there are many "crimes" that we can commit where we are not physically stopped from doing it even though what we can do is still very much illegal.
When you break the license agreement you are simply justifying to yourself what you've done.
The license agreement is there for you to read and if you can't be bothered there are people who are telling you what the license agreement is basically allowing you to do.
If you still decide to go "the other route" you've made that choice but you've done so knowing full well what you've done is not legal.
That is how we would know if what we were doing was legal - if we tried it and it worked then we would know what we were doing was fine.
However as we all know this isn't the case and whereas it is really obvious that certain things are illegal, other areas can be a lot mroe confusing.
That is why we have people who "know" so to speak.
Most of them aren't trying to be clever, taking moral high grounds etc they are simply telling you how it is, how it works - what you do with that information is up to you (and any concequence is yours alone too - remember ignorance isn't a defence).
A friend of mine downloaded some DVD movies.
I was casually talking to his wife and I said to her "So what's it like being married to a pirate then?"
It was said in jest more than anything - I'm totally against all forms of piracy but at the end of the day if I can make people aware of what they have done then I've done all I can.
Her reply - "What do you mean?"
I explained the action of her other half and she honestly thought that it must be legal.
I stood there in disbelief - how can downloading something for free that costs £10+ to buy possibly be legal, but she was of the thinking "If it is possible to do then it must be legal".
You can take this whole argument to many extremes.
"Microsoft have never asked me before when I've phoned through an EBay purchased Dell OEM copy of Windows".
No, you're quite probably right - doesn't make it legal.
"Microsoft gave me an activation code when I called up after I'd installed my OEM copy on a second PC".
Quite possible if the code hadn't been used that often - still not legal.
"The police didn't stop me at the door when I attempted to walk out of the store with a pile of DVD's in my bag"
Fine - but you know what you did wasn't legal don't you...surely.
"Nobody physically stopped me opening the car door with that crow-bar and taking the stereo"
"Nobody actually physically stopped me picking that knife up and......."
Sure we're going to an extreme and no I'm not comparing installing an OS for a second time with taking a knife to somebody, but you can see that there are many "crimes" that we can commit where we are not physically stopped from doing it even though what we can do is still very much illegal.
When you break the license agreement you are simply justifying to yourself what you've done.
The license agreement is there for you to read and if you can't be bothered there are people who are telling you what the license agreement is basically allowing you to do.
If you still decide to go "the other route" you've made that choice but you've done so knowing full well what you've done is not legal.
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neocon said:It arrived today, installed and activated no problem.
Just so you are perfectly aware of your situation; you might just aswell downloaded a copy of XP 'Corporate' and installed that, you are not licensed and you are running totally illegal software.
Burnsy
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neocon said:
Vous êtes logiciel illégal courant et êtes totalement non autorisé.
Burnsy
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Instead of posting on here and asking this question... why didn`t you ask MS themselves if its going to be a legal copy?
There is no problem using this xp oem software. It is not tied to the machine, it will activate, it is not part of a licence pool.
IT IS tied to the machine after it is installed and you will not be able to swap it to another machine or use it if you upgrade the motherboard. Uprading the chip, gpu or any other component makes no difference.
You can only move you OS to another machine if it is the retail version.
IT IS tied to the machine after it is installed and you will not be able to swap it to another machine or use it if you upgrade the motherboard. Uprading the chip, gpu or any other component makes no difference.
You can only move you OS to another machine if it is the retail version.
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2bullish said:
How many times do I have to say this?
This is totally illegal for two reasons.
The license is sold to Dell under a Volume System Builder License Agreement. The licenses are able to be sold by Dell ONLY under the terms of the agreement. This type of software is NFS (not for resale), if they are resold the end user license become invalid.
You have to remember that the license doesn't have to be physical, just because the COA isn't attached to a machine doesn't mean the license isn't (although that license would be invalid without the COA attached). This means that although the COA and disc are being sold, the license isn't.
Burnsy
Edit: and just so I can lay this to rest, I am waiting on MS's clarification so I can quote it.
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I don't see the point of "buying" an illegal licence.
If you are going to be illegal, why are you bothering about buying a licence, and if you are trying to go legit, go buy a full version.
By buying, what you just did was go back to good old fashioned piracy, where people actually make money from it, rather than the file sharing that goes on nowadays. You were conned.
EDIT : I own my own fully licenced OEM version of Windows that came with my PC. I deliberately bought it despite having several dodgy copies, because I know it will catch up with you eventually.
If you are going to be illegal, why are you bothering about buying a licence, and if you are trying to go legit, go buy a full version.
By buying, what you just did was go back to good old fashioned piracy, where people actually make money from it, rather than the file sharing that goes on nowadays. You were conned.
EDIT : I own my own fully licenced OEM version of Windows that came with my PC. I deliberately bought it despite having several dodgy copies, because I know it will catch up with you eventually.
burnsy2023 said:
The question is, will it activate, the answer is yes, will also update itself, the answer is yes, so for all intentsive purposes it a perfectly good working copy of windows.
The fact that reading the small print on not for resale has no bearing on the functionality of the software in the real world. This is not always the case with OEM if it has already been installed on the computer and the disk has come seperately with the machine.
You are quite right on your understanding of OEM software and the legal fact that it can only be sold with the compter, you are also quite right that legally it should not be resold. The fact remains that if the key has never been used before it will work on a home built PC. The ONLY downside is you cannot put it on another PC once it has been activated.
I am not condoning breaking the law, just answering the guys question of "will it work" on another PC. The answer is yes it will. Would I buy it, no I wouldn't as for a few pounds more I can have a legal copy.
Shoseki said:
This is a point I make to a lot of people.
If you're going to go the legitimate route then do it - buy an unbranded OEM copy now and then prepare to buy another one if you swap you motherboard in the future.
Or buy a retail upgrade or full now and then transfer the license around as you want to.
Alternatively if you really don't give a damn, feel the world owes you a living etc then source your copy from wherever for free.
Why pay somebody to do the illegal work for you - it doesn't make you or the license any more legal/legitimate.
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