Wireless doesnt work. Wired does.

[BoomAM]

Heres a wierd one for you all.
Computer network at a School: Proxy Server, DNS Server, DHCP Server, general server:

Last October i setup 3 WiFi access points on the network. All configured to hand out IPs & to have their IP as static.
Tested on an Apple iBook & a Thinkpad, both, when running Firefox, come up with the proxy user/pass dialogue box that is standard to access the net on the network.
Now. We have 10 Dell laptops, that, for some reason, work as above when connected via a ethernet cable to the network. But not when running Wireless.
They do connect to the access points, and i give them IPs, that work.
So, according to the wireless software on them, they are connected to the access points fine. With the correct DNS settings as well.
Now, putting the proxys, that work when wired, into Firefox when running wireless does nothing. No access whatsover.
It cant even ping the access point its connected to!

Ideas?

 

[BoomAM]

The access point doesnt use WPA or anything special. I was the one who unpacked them, put them on the network, set them up. Put the normal 128bit encryption on them & setup the IPs.

The network isnt encrypted in anyway.

 

[BoomAM]

So when they connect, they're assigned IPs?
Perfectly possible to mistype a WEP key too, try disabling it altogether.

No. They can be assigned IPs. But, they are assigned IPs manually by me. As it allows me & the other admin to keep those IPs for the Laptops only.
They havnt been mistyped. And the DNS, IP, Subnet, Gateway & all the other addresses are perfect.

You're contradicting yourself - you enabled 128bit WEP but there isn't any encryption on the network?

No im not. It was asked if i had WPA on. And also asked if i had network encryption on. It wasnt asked if i had wireless network encryption on. Theres a difference. But, i can see where it may have been interpritted wrong.

WEP 128Bit is on. The key is perfect.

All of the variables that are manually entered, like the WEP, and the manual settings that are assigned have been checked 3x by me, and a few other people. All fine.
The same settings work on my iBook & my Thinkpad. But not on these Dell laptops. And i know what the next comment will be: Yes the iBook & Thinkpad are not on at the same time as the other ones. And even if they were, they're IPs are slightly different. They have the IPs of xxx.xxx.x.101 to 102. The Dells have 102 upto 254 available to them. The entire range has been 'reserved' for the usage on the Wireless laptops.

Its odd, because ive loaded a Knoppix Live CD onto one of the Laptops, and it inhibits the same problems as in WindowsXP.
The only 'answer' is that the RM based server software doesnt like the combination of Dell HW & an Wireless access point. But to me, thats not a plausable answer, because as far as the servers concerned, the Dells are connected by a wire, and its just another generic laptop. The server doesnt see the access point as a wireless access point, or connected clients as being wireless. It just sees it as another hub/switch with connected clients
One of the Dells that im testing with aparentely works flawlessly on one of the Staffs home wireless network.

Ive been working on this 'problem' on/off for about 3 weeks now. Its only today that ive managed to get any meaningful time to look at it properly.
And its getting annoying. I cant see a reason why it shouldnt be working.

 

[BoomAM]

Are you sure your IP Addresses are unique and not clashing with anything else on the network?

IPs are unique.

When you manually configure the IP Address, are you also setting up Gateway and DNS details?

Yes. Those details are inputted as well.

Can you ping anything from the Dell laptop? i.e. can you ping the gateway? Or can you ping the Access Point?

Nothing but the 127 jobbo ping wirelessly.

128-bit WEP is encrypting all of your network traffic over wireless. So I don't understand why you are arguing with the people trying to help you.

Im not arguing at all. I was simply pointing out something that someone else thought i was contradicting. A misunderstanding. That in no way qualifys as an argument.

Have you tried taking one of the troublesome access points out of the network, and just test with your Dells? When doing this, try turning off WEP completely. See if it will connect like that.

If i took the access points off the network, how would the dells connect wirelessly?
They connect to the access points fine, all of the software on the Dells that handle the Wifi says that its connected with valid IPs.

Are you sure these Dells support the level of encryption you are looking for? (WEP 128-bit). There is no reason they shouldn't as my Dell is now over two years old and that is WEP 128-bit and WPA-PSK compatible).
[*]Silly question - but is the Wireless Enabled on the Dell Laptops? Press <Fn><f2> to toggle the Wireless card on and off.]

Yes.
The Dells are D810s. Less than 3 months old.
The wireless on them is perminantely on, and the software that allows toggling of the on/off state reports it as being on.


As you can probably gather, its a very wierd problem.

 

[BoomAM]

This confuses me. What do you mean? Please reword this answer. Are you saying that the only only thing that responds is the loopback on 127.0.0.1?

Yes. Thats all that pings.

Are there any psychotic Firewalls on the Dells? i.e. McAfee or Norton bloat?

No.
I disabled the Windows FW & ZoneAlarm on the laptop for testing. And its still no better.

When I suggested to "remove an access point from the network". I meant to take it into it's own, isolated test enviorment. So all you are then doing is trying to connect one laptop to a single access point. As you have fixed IP Addresses, it should be possible to have two laptops connected to an acceess point and then all three devices can ping each other. This will also allow you to mess around with WEP/WPA/etc ?

So have the access point disconnected from the network itself for testing? So the only thing physically connected to the access point is the power adaptor?

BTW - I assume that as the Dells are claiming that they are attached to the Access Points, then the Access Point should show the MAC addresses of the connected devices? Have you checked for that?

Strangly, the Access Point doesnt seem to want to let me access the web interface. So im stuck with using the D-Link software to configure them. Which dont allow me to see what clients are connected. So i have to go on the activity LEDs & what the laptops are reporting.

 

[BoomAM]

The Dells dont come with a restore CD afaik. And completely nuking them and then re-installing is out of the question.
The Dell restore CDs that come with other laptops appear to return the laptops to their shipped state, with windows, office & other apps on.
We dont have seperate Windows & office CDs to work with unfortunatelly.

 

[BoomAM]

Hmm.
The wireless on the laptops works.
Several staff members report it working at home on their wireless routers.
The 'disable/enable' in the Dell software, which is actually some Intel software, ive already tryed. No luck their either.

I'll give DHCP a try next time im in. But i cant see there being a problem with the IPs.
The Laptops report themselves as being connected fine, and the same IPs work through the ethernet fine.

The D-Links broadcast two seperate SSIDs, depending on mode.
I have one set to broadcase LocationX 54g, and the other set at LocationX 11g.
So the network list in the Wireless software sees both.

 

[BoomAM]

Take one Access point and Two laptops.
Cable one laptop to Access Point with cable.
Set second laptop as my WiFi test box.
Turn off WEP/WPA/wtc encryption on the Access Point.
Connect the second laptop to the Access Point.
Logon to the web page or custom utility on the D-Link AP to see if the Dell is listed.
Try to ping laptops from the other laptop. i.e. wired to Wifi and vice versa.

Im not sure if the webpage config will work. It doesnt normally for some reason.

Swear at the Computer Pixies who are getting in the way.

Already done.

Experiment with the various settings in the DLink AP to see if there is anyway for the Wirless to work cleanly.

Dont take offence: But can people read my posts. They connect to the AP's fine. If there was a connection error, then they wouldnt connect at all.

Maybe it is creating some "non-standard" WiFi protocol? Especially if it is knocking out both a 54g and 11g from the same box (Sure you didn't mean 11b?). Try putting this back to "auto" speed negotiation. See if the Dell can pick a different level of WiFi?

I'm gonna try switching off the slower protocol next time im in.
As for 'Auto Speed Negotiation', there is no such setting on the AP's.

Check for new firmware for the D-Link WiFi APs

It had the latest out of the box. Still has the latest.

To clarify: The laptops connect to the AP's. They report as connected. They have valid IPs. They have valid settings. The encryptions are correct and working. Everything about the connection to the AP's is working. No errors whatsoever.

Have you tried updateing Dell drivers? Dell support site is quite good.

Nope. As the laptops are v.new, updated drivers have not been tryed.
I will however advise one of the staff members to run a windows update, and then when ive got the laptop, i'll do some scouring of the Dell website.

Also - Netstumbler is always very useful for WiFi issues.... (Google for it)

I'll try that as well.

 

[BoomAM]

Your not by any chance running Microsoft ISA on the server?

I had the problem the other day whereas ISA was misconfigured so altough the wired worked, the dlink box I was using wasn't sending out an IP address. The laptops would see the network and connect but no IP address.

In the end a few tweaks in ISA allowed them to dishout IP address.

Im not sure.
The network is RM CC3 Based. Im not entirely sure of whats running on the server apart from what ive put on there.
The laptops have IPs that work, and list as connected. So im not sure if thats the problem.
Although i'll see whats on the server when im next in.

 

[BoomAM]

Yep - I hear you on that one. But you also say that you cannot ping anything except for 127.0.0.1. At the very least, if you are genuinly connected, you should be able to ping the AP from the laptop.

I know. Its wierd. Every software app report it as connected & as having a valid IP. But it cant ping anything.

...This sounds very similar to what you are seeing.

Ordinarily, i'd agree. But the key is just a series of numbers from, for example 01 to 16 or whatever. Theres nothing complex, or to get wrong, about the keys, and ive inputted them several times now.

I wasn't ignoring your comments about being connected. I just don't 100% trust the computer to tell us. Especially as it can't ping the AP. And your valid IP Addresses are ones you have entered, so they are valid - but they are not conencted to the network.

Dont worry about it.

I intend to try DHCP, AP keys, the AP isolated, and UbuntuLive when im next in.

How come RM aren't installing the wireless stuff? RM install alsorts of stuff on there servers so I would suggest you take the problem to them

When i got there, these 3 AP's were just lying around. I was asked that if i had the time between other things to sort them out. So i did. And it worked fine, and they were installed in places that i told them to install them (little to no surrounding metal to minimise the faraday effect on the signal).
Anyway, i got in after xmas and was told by the other techy that RM said that the Laptops should automatically jump between AP's depending on signal strength, but they wouldnt. So i had a look, and that led me to this problem.

Them may and charge you there callout rate but that the buggers they are.

If you cant tell I work for a competitor to RM. We hate them

We hate them too. They're software sucks.
AFAIK, we're looking at changing from RM to another well known company soon.

Interesting.... RM CC3 - no idea what that is. But this also points towards the excuse for an isolated test of the DLink APs and the Dells. i.e. is it your network infrastructure causing the problem, or the combination of DLink and Dell?

Research Machines Community Connect 3.
Most schools/colleges/uni use RM based networks. Its essentially a collection of software thats run on the server & client PCs that make them uber-secure. Not to mention uber-annoying to fix problems. Google it.
The theory is, that if you have a problem that you cant fix, you ring them, and within a week or so, they ring back with a fix. Problem is, that they're not all that good. Their field engineers are good though.
Its annoying installing software. Its not as simple as installing it on each machine. Or if its a network installer, running that and letting it install it on multiple machines. 'Packages' need to be made and then allocated, and that takes time, because the package building machine needs to be rebuilt for each package, and all manor of errors can & do occur.
Before looking into this wireless problem, it took me almost 2 months to get Cubase working properly on the network.

 

[BoomAM]

With the right permissions and the known RM backdoors, most parts of CC3 can be circumvented. But on a high school network, its bulletproof. A little too bulletproof.

 

[BoomAM]

Maybe this RM CC3 system is logging the MAC addresses of machines that should be on the network, and therefore blocking all of your new Dells as they are not seen as kosher kit?

Nope.
Ive never 'registered' the MACs of anything on the network while ive been there and its all worked fine.

CC3 isn't bulletproof by a long way. Theres a backdoor that allows files to be placed and run in the C:\Program Files folder that cannot be removed.

This thread isnt about arguing the merits of CC3. Make another thread for that. Im not interested in arguing about CC3 at the moment, merely fixing the problem that im having.