Woman claims she was "sexually abused" by a shaman...

Caporegime
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Just read this story on BBC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-51053580

Relevant passage of the article is below:

The psychedelic powers of a traditional Amazonian plant medicine called ayahuasca are attracting more and more tourists. It's said to bring spiritual enlightenment and to help with addiction, depression and trauma. But a string of allegations suggests there's a darker side to the ayahuasca scene.
Rebekah first tried ayahuasca on a "complete whim" when she was travelling in Peru in 2015.

"I thought it sounded interesting and I thought I might as well give it a try," says Rebekah, a New Zealander in her 20s who asked the BBC not to use her surname. "So I found a retreat centre that I felt was good and I just went for it and it was amazing."

When Rebekah went on her first ayahuasca retreat, she was the only single woman there and noticed that the male healer was paying her special attention.

"How he treated me was very different, which I didn't find suspicious at the time. But upon reflection, now I do."

A year later, by now a more experienced ayahuasca drinker, Rebekah returned to the same retreat in Peru. The same healer was leading the ceremonies.

Once again, she says, she was treated differently from everyone else. There was a lot of flattery. Then the healer began confiding in Rebekah.

"He constantly told me that he had a lot of troubles," she says, "and he said he was having problems with his wife, that he wasn't sexually fulfilled, and that I was the one who was able to cure him of that."


Rebekah was 20 at the time; the healer in his 50s.

"He also promised me a lot of spiritual advancement or a lot of spiritual power, if we had a relationship - while his wife was down the road."

Rebekah says the healer sexually abused her, coercing her into sexual acts.

"It's disgusting," she says. "Because he was a shaman, I thought he had moral superiority in a sense and I trusted him."

After she was abused, Rebekah left the centre - and the country: "I booked a flight and got the hell out of there."

She was left with a tangle of painful emotions: "Disgust, repulsion, betrayal - confusion, as well as to why a guide would do this, why a teacher would do this and why they would exploit their power like that."

Rebekah's alleged abuser is still the head shaman at his centre - which gets five-star ratings on review sites.

"He is still there," Rebekah says, clearly deeply angered by the situation. Her hands are visibly shaking. "There are other centres that I know of as well that are still operating. There've been multiple women that have been sexually abused in these centres."

Come on....this does not sound like sexual "abuse" at all to me. This woman wasn't a girl. At 20 you might be very naive, but you are old enough to make your own decisions, good or bad and have to live with them. Sounds like she made a bad choice to me.

I think this does women, who are sexually abused, a massive disservice.

Thoughts?
 
Think she's a moron and is, as you say, doing genuine victims a disservice. It's things like this that stop real victims coming forwards and get genuine abusers let off criminally.
 
Morning after syndrome! "I wish I hadn't got drunk/stoned/whatever and done that so therefore it must have been rape!"

Seems to happen wayyy to often these days! :(
 
Think she's a moron and is, as you say, doing genuine victims a disservice. It's things like this that stop real victims coming forwards and get genuine abusers let off criminally.
Agreed, seems like she just had second thoughts about what she had done for the guy.
It wasn’t sexual assault but rather seems to me consensual as he told her what he wanted from her and she duly obliged by the sounds of it.
 
Priests have been using their status in the church to diddle people for thousands of years you can't blame the shamans for having a crack at it.
 
It seems to me what it ultimately boils down to is stupid people not wanting to accept any personal responsibility for doing stupid things and wanting to use the authorities (who think they should be involved in everything anyone ever does) as a weapon to get revenge.
 
This raised a conversation about the whole MeToo thing with my wife this morning. We're by no means fully informed on the subject, but we tentatively came to an idea of their being three main subsets when we're talking about someone having sexual relations with 'someone in power' and then this coming out as a matter of abuse.

We have a situation where the 'abuser' is deliberately using their power coercively - saying that the victim will suffer if they do not comply (e.g. in Hollywood you'll never make it without my patronage, and you won't get that without sleeping with me). We were in agreement, this seems to fit the bill of abuse.

We have a situation where the 'abuser' is using their power as bribery (as someone above put it) - saying that they will assist their career (or whatever) if they sleep with them. This one we saw as a bit of a grey area. It's a fairly crappy thing to do, but the 'victim' still seems to have full free will in this situation to say no.

Then we have a situation where the 'abuser' has done nothing at all. They just have that perceived power. The 'victim' has made the independent decision that sleeping with this person will assist them. Here it seems the 'abuser' has done nothing wrong, and the 'victim' is a totally voluntary party to the sex. And these are the particularly troublesome situations which seem like they might get swept up into the MeToo thing as well. These are the ones which make it seem like if you have any kind of money/fame/power you're at risk of accusations you used it manipulatively.
 
“Woman makes bad life choices under the influence of psychoactive drugs - no sensible person is remotely surprised.” would have been a better headline.
 
Isn't clear how much of it was the drugs and how much of it was this spiritual bloke supposedly abusing his position etc..

Like I'd certainly not consider him in the same way as say a priest/other official religious figure in say the West, or indeed anyone else in some position of authority who shouldn't be sleeping with adults they meet in a professional capacity (doctors, university lecturers etc....)

If it wasn't some straight up drugged and raped scenario but more she believes she was coerced/persuaded etc.. by the holy man then she needs to grow up tbh...

Hardly surprising that scammer/holy man who sells trippy drug experiences to tourists fancies (presumably) hot looking young woman from rich country.

Compared to say some local women with generic, wind swept faces & old beyond their years from a hard life - some pampered backpacker from a rich country is probably going to be, to him, like some Victoria's Secret model.... and she's there looking up to him admiringly, because she's super woke and "spiritual". Of course the dodgy scammer bloke with a middle aged wife who was perhaps ropey even back in the day is going to be rather keen.

Perhaps the old Indian style "bobs and vagene" thing has an effect here too - perhaps girls from the West are also viewed in Peru as likely being generally up for it/loose with their morals etc... and can stir up a frenzy?

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@dowie

I do think that in certain countries they watch a lot of western porn and end up assuming all western women are like that fantasy they have in their head. Clearly there is a difference in cultures, where often it would be considered outrageous (unfairly) for a women to have sex before marriage - whereas that's pretty normal for westerners now.
 
Having taken DMT, which is the active ingredient in ayahuasca, you can't really be talked into anything 'under the influence' as apart from the brief onset when reality starts to break down you spend the majority of it in a state where there is no 'you' as far as sense of self or connection with the external reality you experience normally is concerned. It's entirely unlike recreational substances people take that lower inhibitions and make you feel all loved-up, so any decisions she made would have been via her normal faculties.
 
Priests have been using their status in the church to diddle people for thousands of years you can't blame the shamans for having a crack at it.

Shamans were doing it thousands of years before the church even existed, you can't blame the priests for having a crack at it.
 
Come on....this does not sound like sexual "abuse" at all to me. This woman wasn't a girl. At 20 you might be very naive, but you are old enough to make your own decisions

So you think this is the victims fault?

I'm sure Harvey Weinsteins victims feel the same as this woman, so you clearly think he's innocent like the 'shaman' who is in a position of privilege and power. Shameful.
 
This thing about "Choice" is an interesting one...

A Woman gets drugged up/drunk/whatever, engages in Sexual activity and it is abuse because "She was unable to make an informed choice"

Somebody (Man or Woman) gets drugged up/drunk/whatever and goes out for a drive and they are a criminal because they made the informed choice to get Drugged up/drunk/whatever and then made the informed choice to go on and drive.

To my mind you can't have it both ways. Either it should be one thing or another.

(And of course there is the situation where both parties to sexual activity are drugged up/drunk/whatever. Bizarrely "She" is not considered capable of consenting to sex because of her intoxicated state but at the same time "He" is considered to be fully in control of his mental faculties! :confused: )
 
This thing about "Choice" is an interesting one...

A Woman gets drugged up/drunk/whatever, engages in Sexual activity and it is abuse because "She was unable to make an informed choice"

Somebody (Man or Woman) gets drugged up/drunk/whatever and goes out for a drive and they are a criminal because they made the informed choice to get Drugged up/drunk/whatever and then made the informed choice to go on and drive.

To my mind you can't have it both ways. Either it should be one thing or another.

(And of course there is the situation where both parties to sexual activity are drugged up/drunk/whatever. Bizarrely "She" is not considered capable of consenting to sex because of her intoxicated state but at the same time "He" is considered to be fully in control of his mental faculties! :confused: )

The laws with this stuff are far from balanced :\
 
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