Work want to make my role redundant & have offered me two alternatives both lower pay

[HangTime]

Forgive ignorance here, but can't you take the redundancy cash (as compensation for loss of your current role), and then get re-employed on either of the roles they have offered you? So that way you get both - the cash gives you a safety net and the new job gives you some income while you look for something else.

Its no loss to the company - they would have to re-hire the two roles anyway if they paid you the cash and so they are no better or worse off either way.

Companies sometimes have some sort of restriction/policy where they won't hire people they have made redundant into perm roles within a given time period. It's not prohibited by law (afaik) but they want to avoid potential legal disputes down the line like maybe someone else was made redundant at the same time and felt they weren't given the same opportunity or whatever. What you tend to see is people get made redundant then come back as a contractor rather than an employee.

It sounds like the redundancy package is worth about £6-6.5k(?) after tax which isn't that great, you'd take home more than that from 3 months in the £35k job.

For me the real key question would be do you think you can land a decent job elsewhere paying a proper wage within a reasonable timeframe, if you're confident in that then I'd say take the money. The beauty is you can commence your job search whilst serving your notice period and are entitled to take up to two days a week off for interviews on full pay (appreciate this could impact your commission) once you are served notice of redundancy. So it's not like you have to take the money and then sit burning it unemployed whilst trying to land the new job, if you're lucky you might lineup the new job before your last day and just walk out the door with a big pay cheque and then straight into the new job the next day.

 

[dowie]

It's not prohibited by law (afaik) but they want to avoid potential legal disputes down the line like maybe someone else was made redundant at the same time and felt they weren't given the same opportunity or whatever.

Not only is it not prohibited by law but they're actually supposed to try to find roles for people, if anything if they're not doing that then they're not following the redundancy process.

By nature of the fact that people are being made redundant, there will be some left out but it is supposed to be the roles being made redundant not the employees per se so if roles are available elsewhere then they should look to fill them with existing employees who are being let go from other roles, likewise there isn't an inherent issue with rehiring people later if some company has such a policy for that reason then their HR is being a bit silly!

 

[HangTime]

I know they are supposed to find alternate roles as part of the redundancy process, this is about after the process is completed and they have been made redundant. I imagine it's to avoid scenarios like, HangTime and dowie are both employed as photocopying assistants, we get made redundant, apparently there's no suitable roles for us available. Then soon after Dowie gets appointed in a new role, HangTime says this is a sham and they just wanted to get rid of me, but they couldn't give Dowie the job as part of the redundancy process because they'd then have to have given me an opportunity to go for it as well. I'm not saying that's actually the way a company would approach it but some HR departments are overly cautious about this stuff (avoiding such allegations, well founded or otherwise).

 

[MissChief]

Could you negotiate a one off, taxable bonus of the difference between your previous wage from your last P60 and the new role?

 

[breathe3asy]

Been quite a stressful few weeks trying to figure out wtf is going on.

The person dealing with it is being a bit of a dead end, not really giving me the impression they care or listening, or its possible they simply don't have the power to do anything.
So I've gone over them and Whatsapp the person who can which is the Sales Director who ironically has been my direct report for the last few years. As much as I appreciate the trust in me it would have been nice for a bit of guidance and engagement in the business so we're going to have a chat next week about remedial actions.

Since I've been speaking about my situation to others in the team its brought to light how much presales is needed and potentially saved me a bit here. The trouble being, because I'm not measured or KPI'd nobody has any idea of the impact its making. So I'm basically going to bullet point what I want to happen, my targets, commission structure, who I'm going to report into, personal growth plan etc and basically looking for the thumbs up. It will give me the opportunity to earn more as well which wasn't really possible before.

One thing I have realised is that there's a ceiling in how much the operational side of the business can offer (Product), its a lot more structured, yes its more stable and the experience and growth in that area would be valuable, but the sales side of the business is more agile in making sure I'm not out of pocket hopefully. My goal is to try and incorporate both but I'm conscious I'm speaking with the Sales Director and he only really cares about numbers go up so I may have to pitch growth in sales through product...not sure...still thinking.

 

[Jae-So]

I am a bit biased as a Product Manager myself but personally would take that option and learn the ropes.

Then I'd leverage that experience to find a PM job elsewhere with greater earning potential.

 

[dowie]

The trouble being, because I'm not measured or KPI'd nobody has any idea of the impact its making. So I'm basically going to bullet point what I want to happen, my targets, commission structure, who I'm going to report into, personal growth plan etc and basically looking for the thumbs up. It will give me the opportunity to earn more as well which wasn't really possible before.

One thing I have realised is that there's a ceiling in how much the operational side of the business can offer (Product), its a lot more structured, yes its more stable and the experience and growth in that area would be valuable, but the sales side of the business is more agile in making sure I'm not out of pocket hopefully. My goal is to try and incorporate both but I'm conscious I'm speaking with the Sales Director and he only really cares about numbers go up so I may have to pitch growth in sales through product...not sure...still thinking.

So you're going to try and have some sort of product-related role but still sales related too? It's not too clear - surely if you take the product role you'd work with sales at times but you'd not be reporting to the sales director.

I think quibbling about short-term pay here is the wrong thing to worry about - if you want to explore a product role then focus on that and don't overcomplicate things, get into the role get some experience and then get out of that company. That is *if* you're interested in being a product manager, the main thing is that your company doesn't pay but if you have the opportunity to at least get some experience in that role you could get paid elsewhere especially as your CV could be written to show good progression; engineer -> presales -> product owner/manager within a few years is a great sign for any future hiring manager or recruiter you speak to and would be taken to indicate that you had good performance in this company. Do not tell them your salary as that could undermine the whole thing!

If however, you want to carry on in sales then do that either try and talk to the sales director and get the pre-sales role saved somehow or try the sales position or indeed use the sales position to get a bit of experience in a sales role while you job search for a pre-sales role elsewhere.

 

[jaybee]

I would take the redundancy and aggressively job hunt during your remaining time there. If they believed in you and valued you, they would work you into a new role maintaining your current pay or even increasing it. You are a statistic to them. If you truly believe it would take you a while to find a job and want the safety net, then take the 35k job and look around. If your notice period is say 2 months plus the redundancy buffer, you should have a few months to find something. I've never not found a job instantly so I am bias in that regard, but if you have confidence and are employable, you may find you benefit from this financially and get a fresh start somewhere else. Try to look positively. 7 years is a good innings at a company these days. Your time is up which is fine.

 

[breathe3asy]

Thank you gents @dowie love your advice.

I actually have an update that I will share with you later on today as just running out the door to get some things done whilst the sun is up.

 

[breathe3asy]

Ok so I met with my previous report (Sales director) and we had a candid off the record chat which I appreciated.

We came to an agreement that my role had disengaged for various reasons and I said what I wanted to, in that I should have raised the commission model within the first 6-12 months as my impact wasn't being measured and I had no way of directly affecting my take home, but because I was being paid alright at the time I left it etc.

Turns out prior to the meeting he was made aware I wasn't happy with the offers I was being given and so prompted him to start speaking with some of the team on how I do, and fortunately they all backed me pretty hard. Fortunately that made him come up with a "re-launch" of my role not too dissimilar to what I do currently but much more hands on, with targets relating to meetings sat, conversions made and GP on the board. Its given me the ability to earn more which is great so I'm actually pretty happy with how they've looked after me in the end. To finish I made it clear that I do need some personal growth though, and that it can't be all take take take and no give as I'd be helping the sales guys do their jobs better, so I'm going to look into how I can do that so if ever I find myself in a similar situation at least I will have something to show for it. I'm thinking about expensing some sort of external presales course or product sessions in-house etc.

I'm grateful this has all happened in the end as its caused me to review things for the better.

 

[HangTime]

Just keep in mind what you put in your OP: "The role hasn't really evolved or been managed all that well, no clear objectives, targets or reviews have taken place".
It sounds like they are addressing the targets piece which is good but make sure that's baked into the bigger picture i.e. an agreed approach for performance management. To have no reviews in 3 years is pretty bad an implies an organisation that doesn't have adequate central oversight of the process.

There's a tendency for people to let a lack of performance management / reviews slide (I did the same in my 20s, which were very stagnant from a career development perspective) because in some ways it makes them uncomfortable, they feel it's a waste of time, or would prefer not to have to have the hassle of it. But actually it's an important part of driving your own development, if you are confident in your ability then you should relish a performance review and use that to help drive your progression.