Worth changing my Mordaunt Short MS302 fronts to MS902i's?

[NeilF]

My system get's used 75% of the time for music (mainly FLAC from a Squeezebox), 25% of the time films...

If I swapped over, anyone able to comment how it would affect these two uses?

I assume it wouldn't upset the 5.1 balance when watching films? I currently have 302's for all four sound speakers (front/back).

Many thanks...

note: See spec in sig - I can't bi-wire them with my amp...

 

[SBD]

Well it would be best to get a centre speaker that uses the same speaker driver. Another thing is how much are these costing you?

I have a monitor audio set up from the bronze series and they are very good for the money. Brand new the B4s (floor standing) are about £300 but can be had for £150 or less second hand.

Most people can't notice the difference with bi-wire so i wouldn't be too bothered by that

 

[badbob]

Replace the amp first= Yamaha crap. A £200 stereo integrated amp will upgrade sound quality far more than changing speakers.

 

[NeilF]

Well it would be best to get a centre speaker that uses the same speaker driver. Another thing is how much are these costing you?

I have a monitor audio set up from the bronze series and they are very good for the money. Brand new the B4s (floor standing) are about £300 but can be had for £150 or less second hand.

Most people can't notice the difference with bi-wire so i wouldn't be too bothered by that

I have the 'matching' center speaker as I have the MS Avant Premier speaker package.

I see the 902is going second hand for £60. New they're only about £110!

 

[NeilF]

Replace the amp first= Yamaha crap. A £200 stereo integrated amp will upgrade sound quality far more than changing speakers.

Well, TBH, I wound't want two amps. I'd rather just have one amp:-
1) from an ease of use point of view.
2) from a tidy point of view.
3) The issues of having even more speakers, connected to different amps... etc... I want my lounge to resemble a lounge not Currys

 

[badbob]

3) erm have exactly the same, 5.1. Just that the stereo amp is powering the Left/Right.

Whatever you do weakest link is the Yamaha av amp. Even on my PC system I have a seperate Hi-Fi amp for the Left/Right because the av amp is rubbish for all channels, and guess what I have for the Centre and Rears? Yup a Yamaha, A592. It sounds horrid if I use the Yamaha for Left/Right, at least moving amplification from Yamaha to Arcam.

No one with requirement for high quality music reproduction uses a AV amp, not unless it's a Arcam or similar.

 

[NeilF]

3) erm have exactly the same, 5.1. Just that the stereo amp is powering the Left/Right.

Whatever you do weakest link is the Yamaha av amp. Even on my PC system I have a seperate Hi-Fi amp for the Left/Right because the av amp is rubbish for all channels, and guess what I have for the Centre and Rears? Yup a Yamaha, A592. It sounds horrid if I use the Yamaha for Left/Right, at least moving amplification from Yamaha to Arcam.

No one with requirement for high quality music reproduction uses a AV amp, not unless it's a Arcam or similar.

Sorry... Explain? So do you have an AV amp with its left/right not going to speakers, but instead into another stereo amp, which goes to the front left/right speakers?

What about the woofer? On the AV amp?

Volumes would be a pain? ie: Two speakers are from one amp, and all the rest, from the other?

 

[badbob]

1) AV amp is powering center, rears and subwoofer line. Left & Right pre-outs from AV amp to Hi-Fi amp, ideally to power amp in sections. You need to buy a stereo integrated amplifier with this mode, otherwise you need to set volume on the stereoamp to a preset level, and flick the input.

2) Master volume in av mode is with the av amp, with the stereo volume it's bypassed. Stereo mode flick the stereo amp from poweramp mode to integrated mode. All stereo sources are connected to the stereo amp, all video/multi-channel sources to av amp

Yes it's harder to use, requires a extra box, more cables but sound quality is far superior. I went from a Yamaha A592 to Audiolab 8000S and I couldn't believe it. For subwoofer setup more tricky, for av you want the low lfe signal, but for stereo you'll be feeding it full range from the stereo amp. So in av mode it might be receiving two signals, which isn't good. Fine for stereo mode as your av amp will be off/muted.

Lots of people go seperate av amp + stereo integrated amp route.

 

[NeilF]

1) AV amp is powering center, rears and subwoofer line. Left & Right pre-outs from AV amp to Hi-Fi amp, ideally to power amp in sections. You need to buy a stereo integrated amplifier with this mode, otherwise you need to set volume on the stereoamp to a preset level, and flick the input.

2) Master volume in av mode is with the av amp, with the stereo volume it's bypassed. Stereo mode flick the stereo amp from poweramp mode to integrated mode. All stereo sources are connected to the stereo amp, all video/multi-channel sources to av amp

Yes it's harder to use, requires a extra box, more cables but sound quality is far superior. I went from a Yamaha A592 to Audiolab 8000S and I couldn't believe it. For subwoofer setup more tricky, for av you want the low lfe signal, but for stereo you'll be feeding it full range from the stereo amp. So in av mode it might be receiving two signals, which isn't good. Fine for stereo mode as your av amp will be off/muted.

Lots of people go seperate av amp + stereo integrated amp route.

Eek! I suspect for an easy like I'd just live with the one amp! Turn it on and go...

But yes, I can totally see what you're saying about a dedicated amp sounding better than an AV one for music. I have an old bi-amp Sony system (with a woofer) in my study, and I just cannot bring myself to get rid of it as it sounds sooo nice


But back to the question at hand then...

Do you recon if I replaced the front left/right MS302's with MS902I's I'd get better sound for music and films?

Or, regarding films, could I be in danger of upsetting the nature of the sound by no long having four matching (MS302) speakers?

 

[badbob]

In use, once setup the above system is easy to use. Just flip the stereo amp from poweramp to integrated. That's it. Except for the sub, that's a bit tricky one. Perhaps routed through a IR RCA switchbox. So your remote sends a macro - stereo mode, and av mode. In use will be invisible, just need a remote with macro function.

If I had your system I'd change/add

1) Add a stereo amp
2) Better quality subwoofer
3) Replace the 5.0 speakers
4) Replace the av amp

Replacing the 302 L/R with 902 will provide lower bass but you're still limited with the frankly crap Yamaha, and for movies crap subwoofer. A whole/partial speaker change is only worth it if the sources/amp demand higher quality speakers.

I certainly wouldn't change from £200 bookshelf to £250 standmounts (same range, just larger bass driver)

 

[NeilF]

In use, once setup the above system is easy to use. Just flip the stereo amp from poweramp to integrated. That's it. Except for the sub, that's a bit tricky one. Perhaps routed through a IR RCA switchbox. So your remote sends a macro - stereo mode, and av mode. In use will be invisible, just need a remote with macro function.

If I had your system I'd change/add

1) Add a stereo amp
2) Better quality subwoofer
3) Replace the 5.0 speakers
4) Replace the av amp

Replacing the 302 L/R with 902 will provide lower bass but you're still limited with the frankly crap Yamaha, and for movies crap subwoofer. A whole/partial speaker change is only worth it if the sources/amp demand higher quality speakers.

I certainly wouldn't change from £200 bookshelf to £250 standmounts (same range, just larger bass driver)

Well, I'm more than happy with film performance from the system , and am happy enough with the music performance...

So I wouldn't be do any upgrades for listening to films, just to improve music.

I tend to only listen to music through a 2.1 output, hence my question (replace the front 302 with 902s)...

I suppose the problem we have here, is it's all so subjective. One's man's 'crap' is another man's 'good'

ie: I'm happy with my amps output, but if I could improve the music output for £100 with a different pair of front speakers, I'd be interested...

I'm certainly not interesting (in reality can't afford) hundreds for complete new components...

ps: The thing I like about the 302's is they're small/subtle so you don't even notice them! (See below) If I got the 902s I'd put them in exactly the same place(s). But they'd obviously stand out a bit more being 2-3 times as big!

 

[badbob]

ps: The thing I like about the 302's is their small/subtle

And that's also there weakness. Little drivers/sat speaker- no bass.

just to improve music.

Amp upgrade. A speaker upgrade will help also- you could even do both at the same time, but you need the amp first. Like putting a V8 in a Fiat. You first need a capable chassis.

Like I said replacing fronts with slightly larger speakers will provide a wider frequency response, but this doesn't mean it'll sound better.

Trust me if you're into music, add a stereo amp. Since bit confused pickup one with poweramp mode, I know Audiolab 8000S has it but unsure of others.

 

[NeilF]

Like I said replacing fronts with slightly larger speakers will provide a wider frequency response, but this doesn't mean it'll sound better.

Trust me if you're into music, add a stereo amp. Since bit confused pickup one with poweramp mode, I know Audiolab 8000S has it but unsure of others.

Well, given what you'v said then... I'll just give the 902s a skip then

Couple of things:-
1) Audiolab 8000S = £300-400
2) I want the system to be friendly. My other half for example can easily press the existing amps 'on' switch and play music/or a DVD. I don't want her to have to play around with mulitple devices.

So given it's speaker upgrade or nothing, and you're suggesting the 902s won't help (much)... nothing it is...

Thanks for the advice

 

[badbob]

You can pickup a 8000S for less than that. £200-£250. Fair enough with 2) but I'm just giving opinion which'll result in better sound quality, ignoring other things like WAF/expense/usability.

You could replace the AV amp with something with better musacility + speakers. But then why slightly upgrade speakers from £100 to £150, why not go for £400 speakers? ie would you upgrade from a 1.1 to a 1.3 car?

 

[NeilF]

You can pickup a 8000S for less than that. £200-£250. Fair enough with 2) but I'm just giving opinion which'll result in better sound quality, ignoring other things like WAF/expense/usability.

You could replace the AV amp with something with better musacility + speakers. But then why slightly upgrade speakers from £100 to £150, why not go for £400 speakers? ie would you upgrade from a 1.1 to a 1.3 car?

Seriously At the moment £100'ish is all I'd be able to afford... Hence live with what I have I guess - Which I have no problems with

 

[badbob]

If you have £100 to spend I'd buy a universal programmable remote. Replace

1) Squeezebox
2) DVD player
3) TV
4) AV amp
5) I also spot a sky box?
6) And a VCR?

with one, and have macros and discretes for each activity. You will never need to power on, power off, or switch inputs. The remote will do it for you.

 

[NeilF]

If you have £100 to spend I'd buy a universal programmable remote. Replace

1) Squeezebox
2) DVD player
3) TV
4) AV amp
5) I also spot a sky box?
6) And a VCR?

with one, and have macros and discretes for each activity. You will never need to power on, power off, or switch inputs. The remote will do it for you.

Hmmm.. I've never used one, and don't have a problem with my remotes at the moment TBH.
1) The Squeezebox I imagine would be a nightmare to replace. Trying to map the controls to a new remote control, remember where they are etc.
2) DVD player - Having this on a universal would be nice, but if I play a film, then TBH I don't mind having the remote to hand...
3) TV remote hardly ever gets used.
4) AV remote never gets used. Turn it on manually, press button for squeezebox or dvd and turn the volume up/down - Job done.
5) Sky Box remote gets used almost all the time for anything TV related.
6) VCR hardly ever gets used, and really is only there to play 'Tractor Tom' videos for the kids

I'm more than happy simply grabbing the remote that's applicable at the time. And this also applies to the nuggets... The Sky control is the one used 90%+ of the time...

ps: We turn the TV off at the button, never the remote

 

[badbob]

But the point is you DON'T have to grab other remotes, or switch inputs, or switch on/off. As for SB just have a remote with large enough display to show text labels.

I wouldn't go back to multiple remotes. I control

1) TV
2) DVD player
3) AV pre-amp
4) Lights
5) HTPC
6) Sky
7) CD Player
8) Squeezebox 1
9) Squeezebox 2
10) Pre-amp
11) Parents TV
12) Parents Amp
13) Parents Sky
14) Parents DVD P 1
15) Parents DVD P 2

All controlled from a single remote, never needing to switch on, off or switch inputs (except those with hard power buttons ie poweramps)

Well worth it.

 

[NeilF]

But the point is you DON'T have to grab other remotes, or switch inputs, or switch on/off. As for SB just have a remote with large enough display to show text labels.

I wouldn't go back to multiple remotes. I control

1) TV
2) DVD player
3) AV pre-amp
4) Lights
5) HTPC
6) Sky
7) CD Player
8) Squeezebox 1
9) Squeezebox 2
10) Pre-amp
11) Parents TV
12) Parents Amp
13) Parents Sky
14) Parents DVD P 1
15) Parents DVD P 2

All controlled from a single remote, never needing to switch on, off or switch inputs (except those with hard power buttons ie poweramps)

Well worth it.

YOu got an example (make/model) and I'll go and investigate?!

 

[badbob]

www.remotecentral.com

For the SB you'd want a LCD design - but with a kid around not the most robust, best of course would be touchscreen wireless UMPC so control slimserver via browser with nokia 770 skin. Touchscreen will come in handy for Sky also, have logos of the channels you watch, and a macro for each one (ie BBC 1 logo, press that and it send 1-0-1) For controlling other devices a standard hard button will be fine. I dislike touch screen however they do have further customisation.

I use a URC MX-850 remote, although it has 1-9 keys it lacks the ABC letters by each one, however you could use the LCD screen for that. In your system have

DVD. Punch-through volume to av amp, numbers to DVD, channels to DVD
Macro
TV- POWER ON
Delay x seconds
TV- INPUT HDMI 1
AV amp- DVD input.
DVD -POWER ON. If you have discrete IR for that.

Sky. Punch-through volume to av amp, numbers to Sky channels to Sky
TV- POWER ON
Delay x seconds
TV- INPUT SCART 1
AV amp- Sky input.
Sky - POWER ON

SBOX. Volume punch through to AV amp, Channels & numbers to SB.
SB POWER ON (I have discrete for this)
AV amp - SB input

ALLOF. Macro
TV - POWER OFF
SB - POWER OFF
SKY- POWER OFF
DVD -POWER OFF

Then in each page assign commands, ie eject, audio, angle, subs, etc.

Have macros for sky fav on the MX-850 but with only 5 letters have to truncate channel names, not a problem with BBC etc but with others will be.