Would an active subwoofer be much better than my included passive sub?

[keenan]

I'm still using the included speakers for my decade old "Home Cinema in a box" Pioneer HTP-072.

While I've been more than happy with the sound I've been reading up on active subwoofers and I'm curious to see if it would make much of a difference.

The original receiver gave in a few years ago, so I replaced it with an Onkyo R390, which is more than perfect for my needs, but even then I realised the receivers with passive sub support was few and far between.

So, my question.. would it be much of a benefit if I'm still using the included passive speakers?

If yes...

Would something like a used Connected Acoustic 175W/10" sub below £50 and with no real pedigree be a worth while purchase or should I lean more towards a new Wharfedale Diamond 150 for, well .. three times as much?

 

[hornetstinger]

With modern AVR you'll need a active subwoofer. The SW-150 isn't a bad sub I've had one, it's allright for a smaller room, and when you're close to it. You can#t use a passive subwoofer with a AVR (unless you then buy a external amp) in which case the cost will probably be more than the passive sub (which'll be low quality anyway)

If you want it to provide decent spl, low bass, it won't do that.

I'd try and spend more. There's Perlisten subwoofers

 

[lucid]

I'm still using the included speakers for my decade old "Home Cinema in a box" Pioneer HTP-072.

While I've been more than happy with the sound I've been reading up on active subwoofers and I'm curious to see if it would make much of a difference.

The original receiver gave in a few years ago, so I replaced it with an Onkyo R390, which is more than perfect for my needs, but even then I realised the receivers with passive sub support was few and far between.

So, my question.. would it be much of a benefit if I'm still using the included passive speakers?

If yes...

Would something like a used Connected Acoustic 175W/10" sub below £50 and with no real pedigree be a worth while purchase or should I lean more towards a new Wharfedale Diamond 150 for, well .. three times as much?

At the moment, your sub is drawing power from the AV receiver. There's only so much it can give before it starts to have an effect on the rest of the speakers. The power supply in the amp isn't an endless reservoir, and 'doing bass' takes the lions share of the energy as well. In effect then, what air the sub can move is limited by the main and having to divvy-up power between all the speakers and the power hungry sub.

Shifting the sub burden by replacing the passive sub with an active one is a logical step.

Connected Acoustic isn't a brand I've ever heard of. Google doesn't return anything useful on it when I search that term. You might want to include a link to the used sale so we can have a closer look.

Wharfedale SW150 subs will come up as used buys too. If you're on a budget then you don't have to blow it on a brand new sub unless you want the reassurance of a warranty. However, if you can afford to spend £150, you can buy far better than the SW150 if looking at used subs. The SW150 isn't a bad subwoofer, but it is entry-level and that's what you should bear in mind. In the world of subs it's one of the usual suspects in the I'm-on-a-tight-budget-so-what-should-I-buy? list.

A quick mooch through eBay revealed a couple of interesting options. There's a REL Stadium II going ridiculously cheap at the moment, but you'd have to take a drive down to Devon. Stadium II eBay number 134361358731. Don't be fooled by the low power rating of 100W. This is a potent sub. There's some useful reviews online, but the first review in the column here sums it up pretty well. Have a look at some of the subs the guy has also had or used. There's a list of impressive names. I have a Stadium II myself, and last night my lad and I let rip with some music. The floor and the sofa were shaking. My boy said he could feel the bass rippling across the floor when we were playing Lamb Merge and a few other dance tracks.

If you're anywhere near Manchester then you could do a hell of a lot worse for your £150 budget than this full Denon & Wharfedale system. eBay item number 225295700816. Yep, that's 5 satellite speaker, a powered sub, and a HDMI-equipped AV receiver which does all the latest surround sound formats including Atmos should you wish to dip a toe, and all for £150. That's gotta be worth a look.

There's not much in the way of BK subs on eBay of AVForums classifieds at the moment, but I'd keep your eyes peels for the BK XLS200 (small, potent 10" sealed sub.

 

[lucid]

You can#t use a passive subwoofer with a AVR

Although normally true, there were entry-level AVR+speaker packages from Pioneer, Yamaha and Onkyo where they broke the rule here in order to hit a low price point. These kits had AVRs which included a speaker-level output. The speaker package included a passive sub, but in some cases the AVR also had a low level sub out socket too so that there was an upgrade path for the user.

Here's a link to the Pioneer HTP 076 package AV receiver (VSX326)

 

[hornetstinger]

Although normally true, there were entry-level AVR+speaker packages from Pioneer, Yamaha and Onkyo where they broke the rule here in order to hit a low price point. These kits had AVRs which included a speaker-level output. The speaker package included a passive sub, but in some cases the AVR also had a low level sub out socket too so that there was an upgrade path for the user.

Here's a link to the Pioneer HTP 076 package AV receiver (VSX326)

I'm aware of home cinema kits, but they are not the norm when talking avr
Good spot on that £150 system that's a bargain and buy it now also

 

[lucid]

I'm aware of home cinema kits, but they are not the norm when talking avr
Good spot on that £150 system that's a bargain and buy it now also

Yeah, I'm aware that AVRs with speaker outs are not the norm. That's why I wrote "Although normally true, there were entry-level AVR+speaker packages from Pioneer, Yamaha and Onkyo where they broke the rule", so I acknowledged that they are the exception rather than the rule. But the fact remains that they do exist. The OP has one. When you write then that you can't use a passive sub with an AVR - and the OP is sitting with exactly that kit in front of them - then it's obvious that in this instance you don't know what you're talking about. Did you bother to look at the jpeg image of the Pioneer AV receiver? Maybe you should update your knowledge on this.

The Denon+Wharfedale system does look intriguing. For someone local it's got to be worth a visit to check it out and make sure it's complete with remote and setup mic. I'd expect to have to buy speaker leads and power cables on top, but that's hardly a big problem. The Wharfedale speaker kit alone must be worth £150.

 

[hornetstinger]

Yeah, I'm aware that AVRs with speaker outs are not the norm. That's why I wrote "Although normally true, there were entry-level AVR+speaker packages from Pioneer, Yamaha and Onkyo where they broke the rule", so I acknowledged that they are the exception rather than the rule. But the fact remains that they do exist. The OP has one. When you write then that you can't use a passive sub with an AVR - and the OP is sitting with exactly that kit in front of them - then it's obvious that in this instance you don't know what you're talking about. Did you bother to look at the jpeg image of the Pioneer AV receiver? Maybe you should update your knowledge on this.

The Denon+Wharfedale system does look intriguing. For someone local it's got to be worth a visit to check it out and make sure it's complete with remote and setup mic. I'd expect to have to buy speaker leads and power cables on top, but that's hardly a big problem. The Wharfedale speaker kit alone must be worth £150.

I'm aware of his kit, it's simply best ditch the parts, and to move to a modern standard AVR and not give much notice to passive sub / AVR components.

 

[lucid]

That's not what the OP was asking though. He was already aware that an active sub might be a better choice. That's why he mentioned the Acoustic Connection sub and the Wharfedale. The question was whether one was better than the other. £50 vs £150, albeit one of them used and one new.

Re: changing the AVR. A growing number of users don't need anything more than DD 5.1. Their main sources are TV, satellite, cable, and streaming. Outside of the move to Atmos, all of this - the whole lot - is covered if the AVR handles DD 5.1 and some version of Pro-Logic. That can be virtually any AVR from the last couple of decades that features an Optical or Coaxial input. This includes the OP's Onkyo with its speaker-level subwoofer outputs.

Bear in mind that it sounds like the OP is running the original speaker package from their Pioneer. The benefit of an AVR upgrade is going to be masked to a large degree by those speakers. @keenan didn't come asking about ditching the whole system. It was just a question of changing a sub for between £50 and £150. We're also in the run-up to Christmas which has its own set of costs. Had it not been for the surprise of that Denon/Wharfedale kit, then changing the sub then the AVR wouldn't have been something I'd have considered possible.

 

[keenan]

Thank you so much @lucid for all the valuable information! You pretty much summed it up perfectly and all I want is to give the audio a bit more presence.

Now, my current living room is only about 4m x 3.5m so I don't really need anything too extravagant, but in time I'll look at upgrading at least the front left, right and center.

As for the used sub, this is really the only evidence I could find on it..

Is this Sub worth a punt???

Connected Acoustic Sub10 Subwoofer £99. Has anyone heard or have dealings with them? Not too up on Subwoofer's, but looking for a decent budget one. Connected Acoustic - Streaming Audio Systems > Connected Acoustic Sub10 Subwoofer

www.avforums.com

I'll keep and eye on the listings you linked and see if I can't arrange a courier collection if the seller is up for it..