X-Fi Titanium Out Of Sync

lettuce · 1 Nov 2009 at 10:30

I have my creative's X-Fi Titanium hooked up to my Sony amp via a digital optical cable, and have noticed that the sound coming from the digital cable is out of sync with the sound coming from the 3.5mm jack for my PC speakers, which is spot on. Now i can change the sync on the actual amp itself, but then this throws everything else i have connected to the amp (blu-ray player, ps3, 360 etc) out of sync. Can i change the sound sync via the creative control panel, if so how?

lettuce · 2 Nov 2009 at 14:10

Anyone?

Marsman · 2 Nov 2009 at 14:26

Have you got the latest drivers, if there are any?

I have the Xtreme Music, which I have also had connected via the 3.5 jack and optically to my 5.1 system, I didn't experience any sync problems.

Have you tried using coaxial? That's assuming the amp has coax input.

Marsman · 2 Nov 2009 at 14:30

What about the all the fancy EQ crap that the X-Fi has, CMSS etc. Is all that turned off? Don't know if it will make a difference, worth a try I guess if you have the latest divers.

lettuce · 8 Nov 2009 at 16:23

The X-FI Titanium doesnt have coxial inputs just digital, yeah i have the latest drivers, and have tried turning all the CMSS and EQ stuff off aswell with no luck

lettuce · 22 Nov 2009 at 23:48

Does no one else notice this problem im having when using the digital output on the rear of the card, i obviously have to have either the DTS or DD Encoder driver installed, so i can get sound through the ditial input in the first place. So im guessing its a problem with these drivers, i cant be the only person whos notices this MASSIVE flaw??

Marsman · 23 Nov 2009 at 00:32

lettuce said:
The X-FI Titanium doesnt have coxial inputs just digital, yeah i have the latest drivers, and have tried turning all the CMSS and EQ stuff off aswell with no luck

Sorry, I forgot the Titanium uses onboard optical sockets. I keep thinking of the I/O module needed for older Creative cards.

Did you find anything with a Google search?

I did a quick search, quite amazed nothing useful came up, apart from this thread. :rolleyes:

The DTS or DD software is a part of the Creative software, not separate drivers. Although there is a DTS pack is available for cards that do not come with DTS.

What about the DTS or DD processing, do you have it set to let the X-Fi do it, or the external amp?

Marsman · 23 Nov 2009 at 01:05

It occurred to me while posting in another thread, that it could be due to digital processing. I did say above I have used digital and analogue at the same time with my X-Fi and did not get sync problems, but this was a long time ago, and I may not have remembered correctly. I'll try it again and see what happens. I'll post here when I found out if there is digital processing lag or not.

james.miller · 23 Nov 2009 at 16:19

lettuce said:
Does no one else notice this problem im having when using the digital output on the rear of the card, i obviously have to have either the DTS or DD Encoder driver installed, so i can get sound through the ditial input in the first place. So im guessing its a problem with these drivers, i cant be the only person whos notices this MASSIVE flaw??

encoders will alwasy introduce lag to some degree, you wont get away from it im afraid. Remember, you are taking a signal, encoding it, sending it to an amp, decoding it and playing it through the speakers. Why do you need both at the same time anyway?

lettuce · 23 Nov 2009 at 17:38

Marsman said:
What about the DTS or DD processing, do you have it set to let the X-Fi do it, or the external amp?

Im unsure on this, i have the DTS LIve app installed (DTS_PCAPP_LB_1_03_00.exe) as without this installed i cannot work out how to get the sound to work through the digital output, how do you get sound to come through the digital output without either the DTS or DD apps installed?? On my old PC i used i have the creative X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty which didnt have digital optical inputs, so i got one of those creative I/O modules and used that to connect up to my amp, but was ever able to get 5.1 throught that method (dont know why) and i never got any lag from that card

Marsman said:
It occurred to me while posting in another thread, that it could be due to digital processing. I did say above I have used digital and analogue at the same time with my X-Fi and did not get sync problems, but this was a long time ago, and I may not have remembered correctly. I'll try it again and see what happens. I'll post here when I found out if there is digital processing lag or not.

Yeah if you could let me know thanks

james.miller said:
encoders will alwasy introduce lag to some degree, you wont get away from it im afraid. Remember, you are taking a signal, encoding it, sending it to an amp, decoding it and playing it through the speakers. Why do you need both at the same time anyway?

Both?, DTS & DD you mean?, i was just trying both to see if they both had this lag problem.

Im able to change the sync for the audio on the actual amp itself, but it would seem your only able to delay the sync, not increase it (which is what i want), it was set a 3 (as this matched the sound from my TV, PS3, 360 etc), i changed the value on the amp for the sync to 0, it made it better, but there was still a noticeable audio lag

I cant beleive there isnt an audio sync option on the creative control panel itself!!!!

james.miller · 23 Nov 2009 at 17:55

that's right, any audio chain where encoding then decoding is introduced will cause a lag, its inevitable.

I cant beleive there isnt an audio sync option on the creative control panel itself!!!!

but then both the analogue and digital outputs would be lagging behind? I'm not sure what that would solve lol. This is the reason i game with analogue ive im playing serious

lettuce · 23 Nov 2009 at 18:02

Just seems a massive oversight, that using either the DTS or DD apps introduce lag, i mean both the xbox 360 or PS3 encode DD or DTS and there doesnt seem to be lag with these consoles

james.miller · 23 Nov 2009 at 18:22

lettuce said:
Just seems a massive oversight, that using either the DTS or DD apps introduce lag, i mean both the xbox 360 or PS3 encode DD or DTS and there doesnt seem to be lag with these consoles

that's where you are wrong, because there is

singstar for instance, that had MASSIVE problems with audio lag before they updated it with a sync setting, with most people going back to using the analogue stereo output from the multi-out port to make it half acceptable.

besides, would you have even noticed if you werent trying to use both at the same time?

Marsman · 23 Nov 2009 at 18:28

Hmm, well tried using analogue and digital simultaneously with my Xonar DS in my HTPC and the X-Fi in this PC. I could hear no noticable lag. I tried with music and a DVD. I set the X-Fi to decode the DVD, and found no noticable lag between analogue and the 5.1 system. I let the X-Fi pass through to let the 5.1 system decode and again no noticable lag. I am just baffled now. :confused:

Is all audio out of sync, whether it be MP3, CD, or video audio AVI etc?

Also how bad is the lag, 1 second? or only very fractional?

Marsman · 23 Nov 2009 at 18:48

lettuce said:
Im unsure on this, i have the DTS LIve app installed (DTS_PCAPP_LB_1_03_00.exe) as without this installed i cannot work out how to get the sound to work through the digital output, how do you get sound to come through the digital output without either the DTS or DD apps installed?? On my old PC i used i have the creative X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty which didnt have digital optical inputs, so i got one of those creative I/O modules and used that to connect up to my amp, but was ever able to get 5.1 throught that method (dont know why) and i never got any lag from that card

Strange, I have no additional apps installed. I have only the X-Fi driver and control panel, but my card is the Xtreme Music, and I use one of the I/O modules you mention. Hmm, now the Titanium supports DTS and DD, like my X-Fi. Like my X-Fi, it does not have DDL or DTS connect, these are in the pack you bought. Now if you could not get sound to the amp, it would seem that the amp uses DTS connect or DDL.

But this is what really puzzles me. My Xonar which only uses DTS can pass through DD to external DD capable system. Why wouldn't your X-Fi allow pass through of DTS or DD which ever your amp uses?

DDL and DTS connect up mix any audio to 5.1, I can't see why this pack is required for the audio to work with your external receiver.

Another reason why I am no fan of Creative. People must get trouble with Asus cards, but it seems Creative problems are all over the place.

Marsman · 23 Nov 2009 at 19:04

lettuce said:
james.miller said:

Encoders will alwasy introduce lag to some degree, you wont get away from it im afraid. Remember, you are taking a signal, encoding it, sending it to an amp, decoding it and playing it through the speakers. Why do you need both at the same time anyway?

Click to expand...

Both?, DTS & DD you mean?, i was just trying both to see if they both had this lag problem.

I think he means why both analogue and digital at the same time.

lettuce · 23 Nov 2009 at 19:48

Marsman said:
Strange, I have no additional apps installed. I have only the X-Fi driver and control panel, but my card is the Xtreme Music, and I use one of the I/O modules you mention. Hmm, now the Titanium supports DTS and DD, like my X-Fi. Like my X-Fi, it does not have DDL or DTS connect, these are in the pack you bought. Now if you could not get sound to the amp, it would seem that the amp uses DTS connect or DDL.

But this is what really puzzles me. My Xonar which only uses DTS can pass through DD to external DD capable system. Why wouldn't your X-Fi allow pass through of DTS or DD which ever your amp uses?

DDL and DTS connect up mix any audio to 5.1, I can't see why this pack is required for the audio to work with your external receiver.

Another reason why I am no fan of Creative. People must get trouble with Asus cards, but it seems Creative problems are all over the place.

Ok if i just install the driver and control panel for the titanium, when i go into the creative control panel there is no 'encoder' tab, and in order for me to get sound when just using a digital cable to my amp i have to go to the SPDIF I/O tab and at the bottom there is a 'Digital Output' box and within this is tick box titled 'play stereo mix using digital output' once this box is ticked i get sound, but my amp is only list this as a 2 channel signal i cannot change it. In order for my amp to receive a 5.1 channel, i have to install either the DTS or DD apps, then i have an encoder tab appear in the creative control panel, this then shows up on my amp as 5.1 and either the DTS or DD icon on the amp is lite up.

When you connected yours via the digital input is your amp saying that it is infact a 5.1 channel signal its getting, as like you on my previous creative card i had to use an I/O module so i could hook it up with a digital cable, but it never gave me a 5.1 signal just 2 channel?

Marsman · 23 Nov 2009 at 20:19

lettuce said:
Ok if i just install the driver and control panel for the titanium, when i go into the creative control panel there is no 'encoder' tab, and in order for me to get sound when just using a digital cable to my amp i have to go to the SPDIF I/O tab and at the bottom there is a 'Digital Output' box and within this is tick box titled @play stereo mix using digital output' once this box is ticked i get sound, but my amp is only list this as a 2 channel signal i cannot change it. In order for my amp to receive a 5.1 channel, i have to install either the DTS or DD apps, then i have an encoder tab appear in the creative control panel, this then shows up on my amp as 5.1 and and the DTS or DD icon on the amp is lite up.

When you connected yours via the digital input is your amp saying that it is infact a 5.1 channel signal its getting, as like you on my previous creative card i had to use an I/O module so i could hook it up with a digital cable, but it never gave me a 5.1 signal just 2 channel?

I have no encoder tab either, just the decoder tab with DTS and DD EX options. In the I/O tab I only can only select PCM sample rate, but this is probably because my card has no SPDIF connectors, only the flexi jack. If I select external DD decoder in the X-Fi console/panel, and play a DVD using Power DVD, the 5.1 system shows as receiving true DD. DD or DTS should only apply to media that is encoded with these, DVD for eg. If I play an MP3, the DD light turns off. In other words, the signal being sent is 2 channel unless the source is encoded with 5.1. The receiver then up mixes it to 5.1 using Pro Logic if it has it.

The reason I believe the 5.1 lights up on your amp is because the sound card has already encoded it to 5.1 using DTS connect or DDL, which ever your amp is compatible with. Whether the sound card does it or the amp, you are still only up mixing 2 channel sound unless the source is encoded with DD for eg, which is true 5.1. DDL and DTS connect basically take 2 channel sound and convert it to 5.1

james.miller · 23 Nov 2009 at 20:24

no they dont, they take any source and encode it. ie, it could be 5.1 analogue from a game for example.

Marsman · 23 Nov 2009 at 20:24

Without the add on pack, you should be able to use a media player that supports DD or DTS, like Power DVD for eg, and pass the bitstream on to the amp, which should then appear as 5.1, as it does with my setup.