X670 CPU Support

[ninezerofive]

I think it's safe to assume that there will be X670 boards some time next year.

Do you think/Have you heard that they might drop some more CPU's from the supported list ?

Like they did with the first gen and x570 ?

Should I be worried that the 2600 won't be supported on x670 ?

 

[MaXxBoulton]

I think it's safe to assume that there will be X670 boards some time next year.

Do you think/Have you heard that they might drop some more CPU's from the supported list ?

Like they did with the first gen and x570 ?

Should I be worried that the 2600 won't be supported on x670 ?

Let me just get my magic ball out....

 

[AStaley]

Let me just get my magic ball out....

Dude, keep it in your trousers, people are watching!

 

[ninezerofive]

One of the tech-toubers I asked said that they will definitely drop the support for 2nd gen.
I guess it doesn't matter, I will most likely get 3600 anyway for my upcoming project.

 

[AStaley]

As you say, i'm not sure it would matter if they dropped support for older processors as anyone buying a newer motherboard would presumably buy a current CPU. That said, not sure why they would need to drop support for the older CPU's if they were the same pin layouts, I can't see the omitting the code from the BIOS would gain them anything.

 

[Steveocee]

Wait so they're going to use the AM4 socket but drop support for older CPUs?

 

[Panos]

I think it's safe to assume that there will be X670 boards some time next year.

Do you think/Have you heard that they might drop some more CPU's from the supported list ?

Like they did with the first gen and x570 ?

Should I be worried that the 2600 won't be supported on x670 ?

Wait so they're going to use the AM4 socket but drop support for older CPUs?

AM4 would only be still supported by Zen 3 next year. Zen 4 in 2021 needs new sockets for the whole lineup, including servers.
Also with Zen 4 we will get DDR5 & PCIe 5.0

 

[Deleted member 209350]

X670 is likely the last one to be supported by AM4, but still nothing concrete yet

 

[Armageus]

That said, not sure why they would need to drop support for the older CPU's if they were the same pin layouts, I can't see the omitting the code from the BIOS would gain them anything.

The issue with some of the current boards was that the BIOS chip did not have enough capacity to hold all of the microcode needed for the new Ryzen chips (meaning that updates were released that added new support but removed 1st generation support)

Some previous boards have been updated to "MAX" versions that have a larger capacity BIOS chip where this is no longer a problem.

Going forwards I think there will be a mix - some boards will cost save and retain the smaller BIOS chips, others will move to the larger BIOS chip by default (and retain backwards compatibility all the way back to 1st gen)

 

[ninezerofive]

Wait so they're going to use the AM4 socket but drop support for older CPUs?

Well they dropped the support for first gen Ryzens on "some/all" not sure x570 boards.

My initial plan was to get a cheap mobo + 2600 and next year upgrade to the X670 board and later on to 4950.

But if I won't be able to use the 2600 on X670 then it's a problem.

But at this point I think I've made up my mind that I will go with 3600 from the get go and avoid any problems in the future.

 

[Steveocee]

If they are dropping support for older chips though then it almost doesn't make sense to keep the same socket format. Yeah ok there's probably 1-2 generations crossover but still, seems a pretty lacklustre approach to keeping the same socket through 4 generations.

 

[LePhuronn]

AMD aren't doing anything. It's motherboard vendors.

AMD write the microcode, hand it to vendors and then largely wash their hands of it. If an existing BIOS does not have capacity to support 3 generations of CPUs then the vendors will drop something. In MSI's case, they released MAX versions of some 400 boards with bigger BIOS chips to support more CPUs. Also, it is entirely down to the vendor how long they want to support older products. X370 was over 2 years old at the time of Ryzen 3000's release, and given uncertainty surrounding Ryzen's viability back then it's a known fact that not a lot of effort was put into 300 series boards. So why support Ryzen 3000 and 4000 in junk boards that can't really handle them? Why lose revenue opportunities by supporting older boards in favour of the latest and greatest?

And also don't forget common sense: if somebody is planning on dropping a 12 core 3000 or 4000 into a B350 boards then they need their head read. Similarly, who pays $400 for a top-end X570 (or 670) board and drop in a Raven Ridge?

If they are dropping support for older chips though then it almost doesn't make sense to keep the same socket format. Yeah ok there's probably 1-2 generations crossover but still, seems a pretty lacklustre approach to keeping the same socket through 4 generations.

3 generations of crossover is a lacklustre approach? Really?

Also, who upgrades a motherboard yet keeps the CPU? That's backwards. ninezerofive is not alone in his approach in establishing a strong baseline for future CPU upgrades - get the solid board now, pair it with a simple CPU then push the big chip later on - but in the real world there's probably bigger savings to be had by selling on the mobo AND CPU as a bundle and getting the new board AND new CPU together.

 

[Steveocee]

3 generations of crossover is a lacklustre approach? Really?
Also, who upgrades a motherboard yet keeps the CPU? That's backwards. ninezerofive is not alone in his approach in establishing a strong baseline for future CPU upgrades - get the solid board now, pair it with a simple CPU then push the big chip later on - but in the real world there's probably bigger savings to be had by selling on the mobo AND CPU as a bundle and getting the new board AND new CPU together.

Apologies. Eyes read new board not support old CPU, mind processed as new cpu's not supported on old boards.

Still though, AM4 should be AM4 and all should be cross compatible as that was a very loud jab at Intel with their constant platform hopping.

 

[Armageus]

Still though, AM4 should be AM4 and all should be cross compatible

For the most part they still are, just potentially they don't support both very old and very new processors at the same time (either 1 or the other).

It's more of an issue if buying a "replacement" board for an old processor (as you may need an interim newer processor to be able to "downgrade" the BIOS)

 

[LePhuronn]

Apologies. Eyes read new board not support old CPU, mind processed as new cpu's not supported on old boards.

Still though, AM4 should be AM4 and all should be cross compatible as that was a very loud jab at Intel with their constant platform hopping.

And AMD had every intention of making AM4 is AM4 is AM4, but there's been some technical hitches along the way, namely the lacklustre motherboards on 300 series and insufficient BIOS capacity. We're talking extremes of the spectrum here too - is it unreasonable to find that the 3950X isn't supported by a B350 board? Is it unreasonable to find X670 won't support a 2400G? The middle ground isn't an issue.

Hell, even if AMD fell short of their intended support target, they still succeeded in jabbing Intel by having more than 1 generation supported on a motherboard, especially when it's been proven there was no technical reason why Intel couldn't have Z170, 270 and 370 pair up with Sky, Kaby and Coffee Lakes.

 

[4K8KW10]

AM4 would only be still supported by Zen 3 next year. Zen 4 in 2021 needs new sockets for the whole lineup, including servers.
Also with Zen 4 we will get DDR5 & PCIe 5.0

DDR5 is slower than DDR4 because of the extremely high latencies, there are no DDR5 modules currently on the market and I doubt memory producers will start releasing because of AMD only.
PCIe 4 is left unused, PCIe 5 will be the most stupid paper feature ever.

 

[LePhuronn]

DDR5 is slower than DDR4 because of the extremely high latencies, there are no DDR5 modules currently on the market and I doubt memory producers will start releasing because of AMD only.
PCIe 4 is left unused, PCIe 5 will be the most stupid paper feature ever.

There are no DDR5 modules now but we're talking about Zen 4 adoption in 2021. PCIe 4 is largely unused now (unless you want NVMe RAID of course), but even PCIe 3 can still be untapped. And again we're talking about 2021. Also you're (again) forgetting that servers are a thing and workstations are a thing. Just because the small, insignificant niche market that is PC gaming doesn't utilise PCIe 3, let alone 4, doesn't mean that deep learning clusters and 3D render farms aren't saturating PCIe 4 and already screaming for bandwidth.

 

[4K8KW10]

There are no DDR5 modules now but we're talking about Zen 4 adoption in 2021. PCIe 4 is largely unused now (unless you want NVMe RAID of course), but even PCIe 3 can still be untapped. And again we're talking about 2021. Also you're (again) forgetting that servers are a thing and workstations are a thing. Just because the small, insignificant niche market that is PC gaming doesn't utilise PCIe 3, let alone 4, doesn't mean that deep learning clusters and 3D render farms aren't saturating PCIe 4 and already screaming for bandwidth.

So, PCIe 5 and DDR5 can be limited to servers-only features from 2021 onwards, while the desktop will stay with PCIe 4 and DDR4.

The desktop has more important priorities - like for example full scale adoption of smartphones-grade display panels across the entire range.
These 1080 panels on notebooks and large monitors are really disturbing and painful.

 

[LePhuronn]

So, PCIe 5 and DDR5 can be limited to servers-only features from 2021 onwards, while the desktop will stay with PCIe 4 and DDR4.

Why? Especially considering AMD's chiplet approach, why create 2 different I/O dies for different memory and I/O standards?

 

[4K8KW10]

Why? Especially considering AMD's chiplet approach, why create 2 different I/O dies for different memory and I/O standards?

The EPYC does get a different cIOd chiplet right now.