XBOX 360 my concerns

thedoc46

thedoc46

thedoc46

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Typically I go out and buy a console on launch. I've pretty much owned most if not all the consoles out there, but I've held back from the XBOX360. One reason is because I recently upgraded my PC to the latest and greatest and secondly, I am very disapointed from what I've so far seen!

For next gen, what makes my heart sink the most is that every game I've seen running only runs at 35FPS??? Even PGR3 ? and it's all looked pretty jaggy to me. Put it down to launch titles if you will, but come on PGR3 at only 35fps?? That is pretty poor. Driving games NEED to be 60fps. Personally I prefer the gfx of GT4 than PGR3. Cos it has a smoother feel. Admitally I've not seen too much other than what they've been displaying on the demo screens. But all their demo's look pretty sloppy too.

I just hope it's a burp in it's early days. King Kong, 35fps, COD2 has framerate issues, Far Cry, I would have hoped to have the occasional game running at 35fps, not the occasional game running at 60fps...

It makes such a difference. Some may argue, some can't even tell the difference :confused:

Anyway it's been enough for me to keep my fingers in my pockets.

Hopefully it's been just a bad launch.
 
Why are some people so obsessed with framerates? I've got PGR3 and it's completely smooth. I also have Burnout Revenge (running at 60FPS) and you can't tell the difference between them. Seriously, I can't see why it bothers some people.
 
Is he DirtyDog's twin?

Do we still have all the old threads about FPS and why it really doesnt matter?

To be honest, id really like you to post how much you have just spent on your new rig and your rigs cost overall, but id understand if you dont want to.
 
I really can't tell it runs at 35FPS... though i would do if it was running on a PC. Trust me, screenshots don't do the games justice at all.
 
I don't know much about the consoles since the first PS1 as I'm a former pc gamer, but look at the Xbox for a good example. By today's standards it's crap hardware, yet only for the past year or so (i'd guess) have all the quality titles started arriving. I'd guess that the developers have finally got used to the hardware on the console.

It's extremely early days for the 360 and the potential of our console has no where near been realised yet. The gpu's power, the 3 cpu's and live - It's a dream combo waiting to be unleashed, the only question is when?

I know how you feel. I care little about framerate, but have been somewhat annoyed by glitches that every game shares at this current time namely online dropouts which do plague a lot of games, and the pathetic multiplayer limit which I still can't understand.

Imo, PGR3 is the most impressive game I've played to date even though I haven't touched it in 2006. Online is very neat, no lag, no dropout, lovely online options, spectator mode, gotham tv - I can't think of any serious technical flaws apart from it boring the hell out of me :D
 
thedoc46 said:
Typically I go out and buy a console on launch. I've pretty much owned most if not all the consoles out there, but I've held back from the XBOX360.
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You've had every console at launch - and this is the first time you've noticed 30fps? Where were you during the PS1/PS2/Saturn/Xbox/PSP/DS launches?

Have you even played PGR3?

The reason you probably haven't noticed the 30fps problem at the other launches is due to one thing: Human brain picks up on fluctuations far more than anything else. Fluctuating between 45 and 60fps will be far worse than a solid 30fps. Thats the thing with 60fps, if you can't guarantee it as a minimum you have to drop to 30fps, since every drop below 60fps will be very noticeable. This is why many people who have played PGR3 either thought it was 60fps or found it very smooth, it runs at a solid 30fps.
 
broken record, heard it over and over

for the final time

PGR3 IS PLAYABLE AT 30 FPS, YOU DO NOT REALISE ITS 30FPS, and the team admitted they were rushed ffs

i hear full auto suffers from slow down, if it impedes on gameplay then i will start complaining, im not a fanboy it just peeves me off when just because its not 60 fps it must be carp

honestly get some sense
 
Oblivion definitely suffers from slow down/stuttering, but youd have to be a nonce to let it get on your nerves as the other 95% of the time its fine and considering what the engine does and looks like you really have to think.. man.. this game looks and plays great for £300.
 
How do people tell the FPS anyway? Not like it has a frame counter in the corner.

On a normal PAL50 TV the FPS is a maximum of 25fps (interlaced) and on PAL60 it's 30fps (interlaced again).

edit: does it actually display a whole frame in 2 refreshes or display half of one in one refresh and then half of another in the next?
 
You held off the Xbox360? Despite it's praise? Despite the praise for the games?

If the slow-down was THAT bad, do you think games would still be getting REALLY high marks? 30FPS is not an issue when it's pushing the graphics it is. I'd prefer 100fps, but if it has to be 30fps then 30fps it is, I won't lose any sleep over it.
 
thedoc46 said:
Driving games NEED to be 60fps.
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Why? Where is the logic in that?

PGR3 looks silky on my 50" screen and even if it did not the gameplay and handling outweigh the graphics in my opinion.
The first console I ever played was an old atari in 1979 in black and white, the graphics were not exactly cutting edge by todays standard and the game was about as simple as it gets (Pong) but it was the gameplay that made it great.

Photoreal graphics at 60 fps do not make a game good, gameplay does, hence we don't "need" 60 fps.
 
PGR3 has been one of the most fun racers I've played in ages, if your gona miss games due to tech specs then your gona miss a lot of fun.
 
thedoc46 said:
Driving games NEED to be 60fps. Personally I prefer the gfx of GT4 than PGR3.
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Okay, racing games have been running less than 60FPS for YEARS yet only now are they bad? Rubbish.

Also, put Nurburgring on both at the same time and you'll see there aint much in it.
 
Davey_Pitch said:
Why are some people so obsessed with framerates? I've got PGR3 and it's completely smooth. I also have Burnout Revenge (running at 60FPS) and you can't tell the difference between them. Seriously, I can't see why it bothers some people.
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Spot on framerate this framerate that they are playable and very nice looking aswell. :)
 
Boogle said:
You've had every console at launch - and this is the first time you've noticed 30fps? Where were you during the PS1/PS2/Saturn/Xbox/PSP/DS launches?

Have you even played PGR3?

The reason you probably haven't noticed the 30fps problem at the other launches is due to one thing: Human brain picks up on fluctuations far more than anything else. Fluctuating between 45 and 60fps will be far worse than a solid 30fps. Thats the thing with 60fps, if you can't guarantee it as a minimum you have to drop to 30fps, since every drop below 60fps will be very noticeable. This is why many people who have played PGR3 either thought it was 60fps or found it very smooth, it runs at a solid 30fps.
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For starters back back in 95 during the PS1 and Saturn launches, consoles didnt have the graphic prowness to run games at 60fps. Very few titles did. The PS2 main driving launch title was Ridge Racer which was a 60fps game. Closely followed by GT3 which was a??? 60fps game. Pretty much most driving games on the PS2 are 60fps, it's rare we get to see a sloppy 35fps game on a PS2. The original XBOX's PGR was a 60fps game. PGR2 wasn't though. I expect a driving game to be 60fps that's all. It's not much to ask is it for a triple core next gen machine is it? Especially since it's predecesor's could manage it.

My prediction was correct, I've been jumped on with comments like 'why are people so obsessed with frame rates blah blah blah'. If I was to go out and buy a top of the range BMW and it didn't drive smoothly, I'd be dispointed wouldn't I. Same applies with a console, If I am to spend a lot of money for the latest and greatest, then I want it to be exactly that. SMOOTH. I want it to be smooth and jaggy free. A 35 fps game is not smooth compared to a 60fps game. Does it affect gameplay probably not. But that's not the point here, we are buying these new beasts not because they will provide us better gameplay, but cos they are supposed to give us better graphics.

My other concern is that the machine has been a flop in Japan.. Is the european and US market enough? It's a slice, but Japan is still considered the most important market out there. Unfortunately for Microsoft's sake Sony have now have easy pickings in Japan for their launch!
 
thedoc46 said:
For starters back back in 95 during the PS1 and Saturn launches, consoles didnt have the graphic prowness to run games at 60fps. Very few titles did. The PS2 main driving launch title was Ridge Racer which was a 60fps game. Closely followed by GT3 which was a??? 60fps game. Pretty much most driving games on the PS2 are 60fps, it's rare we get to see a sloppy 35fps game on a PS2. The original XBOX's PGR was a 60fps game. PGR2 wasn't though. I expect a driving game to be 60fps that's all. It's not much to ask is it for a triple core next gen machine is it? Especially since it's predecesor's could manage it.
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PGR2 is better than any of those you mentioned, also better than those you mentioned: Daytona USA, Sega Rally and Ridge Racer.

If I was to go out and buy a top of the range BMW and it didn't drive smoothly, I'd be dispointed wouldn't I. Same applies with a console
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Don't know where you've been playing, PGR3 is as smooth as any game I've played.

My other concern is that the machine has been a flop in Japan.. Is the european and US market enough? It's a slice, but Japan is still considered the most important market out there. Unfortunately for Microsoft's sake Sony have now have easy pickings in Japan for their launch!
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Xbox was the best console last-generation and that did pants in Japan, I still played amazing games. Also, ask Microsoft who they'd rather have, Asia or Europe and North America I'd guarantee you they'd say the latter.
 
Just want to say that it's going to take a miracle for MS to break into Japan and the Asian market anyway, I knew this before I even decided on getting my 360. It'll easily survive without them though.

They love their own home brewed brands e.g Nintendo, Sony etc and the PS3 will rule supreme over there. I can't see any amount of asian orientated games on the 360 ever changing that. They just don't want a yankie doodle company being dominant there, let alone one of the largest in the world.
 
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