Xonar DG Sound Card vs Motherboard Sound

LukieBoy007

LukieBoy007

LukieBoy007

Soldato
Joined
4 Apr 2012
Posts
2,561
Location
England
Hi,

I have a Xonar DG in my rig currently (main part of it is 7 years old now, i5 3570k with Z97 motherboard), used in conjunction with some Beyerdynamic DT770's (80ohm version I believe). I also have some sub-£100 2.0 Creative speakers which I use every now and then.

I am planning on upgrading my PC this summer - will it be worth keeping the Xonar in a new motherboard? My current motherboard doesn't have as much power as the sound card when it comes to driving the headphones, are new motherboards any better for this? Or should I keep the Xonar?

Grateful for any help:)
 
The Xonar will always have the advantage that it will be further away from electrical noise than onboard sound. I'd say you should try both and see how you get on. The DG is PCI however as I have one? Does your new motherboard have PCI slots or only Express?
 
Ok thanks, will probably try both.
With regards to the PCI slot, yeah you are correct. I haven't bought a motherboard yet (waiting for Zen 2), do most motherboards nowadays not have many PCI slots (if any)?
 
Hardly any mobo has PCI slots nowadays... thankfully.
PCI was obsolete for home use already at start of decade.
In fact Intel already removed native PCI support from H/P/Z68 chipset.
Motherboard makers should have then removed all but one (/max two) PCI slot from most mobos to make room for good positioning of PCI-express slots.

If you want to use both headphones and speakers, it would be anyway better to have sound card designed for connecting both simultaneously without need to change cables.
 
Ok, looks like I may have to buy a new one then.
I've seen a few DACs recommended (especially the Fiio E10k), anyone know if it would be wise to get one of those for the headphones and then just use onboard for the speakers? That way I can switch via Windows.
 
LukieBoy007 said:
I've seen a few DACs recommended (especially the Fiio E10k), anyone know if it would be wise to get one of those for the headphones and then just use onboard for the speakers? That way I can switch via Windows.
Click to expand...
If you play games forget dumb single purpose DACs.
DT770 is very capable for binaural sound for closed can of its price range.
If your head shape is close to average first minute of this is excellent test for headphones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1_20T8x_OI
(listen at stereo settings without any processing)

Also not sure what audio sources would like about playback device being completely changed on the fly.

Sound Blaster Z has line outs for speakers and separate headphone out and changing output between them is done through control software.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/search?sSearch=sound+blaster+z
Toggling output can be also automated to hotkey using SBZ Switcher.
https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/s...s-headphones-mode-switching-available.381416/
 
EsaT said:
If you play games forget dumb single purpose DACs.
DT770 is very capable for binaural sound for closed can of its price range.
If your head shape is close to average first minute of this is excellent test for headphones:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1_20T8x_OI
(listen at stereo settings without any processing)

Also not sure what audio sources would like about playback device being completely changed on the fly.

Sound Blaster Z has line outs for speakers and separate headphone out and changing output between them is done through control software.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/search?sSearch=sound+blaster+z
Toggling output can be also automated to hotkey using SBZ Switcher.
https://forums.guru3d.com/threads/s...s-headphones-mode-switching-available.381416/
Click to expand...
Cheers mate:)
Yeah I do play games frequently, especially FPS games - you're saying that a sound card with virtual 5.1/7.1 will be better than a stereo 2.0 DAC?
I do listen to a lot of music as well.

Maybe a stupid question but what would the sound difference be between a new motherboard that supports 5.1/7.1 and a soundcard (such as the Sound Blaster Z)? I'm looking at motherboards around the £100 price mark btw.
 
Motherboards have 5.1/7.1 audio output, but that is not the same as the virtual 5.1/7.1 being mentioned for headphone use. 5.1/7.1 output on a motherboard is for speakers. For virtual 5.1/7.1, algorithms are required; such as SBX Prostudio found on Creative products and Dolby Headphone on Asus Xonar products. Most motherboards don't have things like SBX Prostudio.

You could make it work with just a stereo DAC, but you would need additional software; the DAC by itself is not enough. Windows 10 does have such a feature; Dolby Atmos for Headphones. I think it can be used for a trial period then after that needs to be purchased. Creative also have a SBX software package which can be purchased for use with audio devices other than their own.
 
LukieBoy007 said:
Yeah I do play games frequently, especially FPS games - you're saying that a sound card with virtual 5.1/7.1 will be better than a stereo 2.0 DAC?
Click to expand...
Unless you like having sounds inside your head and not even proper left-right positioning.

Here's BF4 with stereo sound:
https://youtu.be/d1_20T8x_OI?t=12m57s
Compare that to first minute.

Or another game's stereo sound with lovely in left or right ear, or in center of head positioning.
https://youtu.be/Y6ROujJ8Ae8?t=53s
Vs. binaural sound.
https://youtu.be/Y6ROujJ8Ae8?t=6m20s

Depending on mixing also some music has annoyingly artificial sound with headphone...
Because headphones lack natural crossfeed of listening speakers, with sound of left speaker travels also to right ear and vice versa.
That's also how we locate sounds in 3D with just two ears:
Shape of the head and pinnae causes direction dependant changes to signal received by ears from sound source.
When those binaural cues are recorded in signal (or simulated mathematically) with good headphones you can get very good of immersion of actually being there.

That's how music should be recorded instead of current scrappy stereo...


LukieBoy007 said:
Ah ok thanks for explaining, so I'm getting the feeling that Sound Card > DAC if gaming?
Click to expand...
Definitely simpler to have one device doing whole thing taking surround/5.1 sound from game (or movie player) and doing binaural sound simulation.
Also you can easily have speakers connected besides headphones.

And compared to audio fashion stuff you can actually get really good DAC and headphone amplifier in sound card at pretty good price.
AE-5 has high end D/A converter and headphone amplifier enough for most headphones you could buy.
https://www.overclockers.co.uk/crea...aming-sound-card-70sb174000000-sc-104-cl.html
Sound BlasterX G6 is pretty comparable external sound card, though with only stereo line out.
(but with Dolby Digital decoding for full functionality also with consoles)
 
Thanks for explaining, really informative. Definitely noticed a difference on those clips you linked. I think it's best if I go for a sound card replacement then.
Like the look of the Sound Blaster Z for the price, although Windows 10 driver support seems a little bit shaky for it according to reviews.
As for the AE-5, I'm assuming that also supports headphones & speakers connected at the same time, like the SBZ?
 
LukieBoy007 said:
Thanks for explaining, really informative. Definitely noticed a difference on those clips you linked. I think it's best if I go for a sound card replacement then.
Like the look of the Sound Blaster Z for the price, although Windows 10 driver support seems a little bit shaky for it according to reviews.
As for the AE-5, I'm assuming that also supports headphones & speakers connected at the same time, like the SBZ?
Click to expand...
With Wintoys10 anything is at mercy of Microsoft's whim.
You never know what gets patched broken or what faulty drivers it force installs over working ones necessitating reinstall of drivers.
(or network settings suffer dementia)
Instead of we paying for MS to buy it, MS should be paying users for alpha testing rushed garbage they push out:
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/10/23/microsoft_windows_10_crisis/

AE-5 is certainly going to have longer support because of being newer product and has lot more capable headphone output.
There's AE5Switcher for changing between headphone and speaker output mode without need to go into control panel software.
https://github.com/dainesch/AE5Switcher

I don't think there's similar tool for SBX G6 for changing between its headphone out and line out.
Though it has the advantage of own volume control (if your keyboard doesn't have it) and direct control buttons, like for disabling processing, which can be handy for music.
Also those binaural recordings need to be listened without any processing:
Any additional processing simply degrades or completely breaks binaural cues.
(just like re-baking already baked food only worsens/burns it...)
 
Ok thanks, nice one:)
Think I'll go with the AE5 when I get round to upgrading my PC, been watching a few videos on it and it seems impressive. I use my headphones a lot so the Xamp feature on the AE5 looks quite good.

Yep I made sure I turned off Dolby Headphone etc on my Xonar before listening to them, thanks for the heads up:)
 
I am a weirdo who has every card mentioned in the previous posts, and a couple more.

My card in the Main PC is the creative ZXR. I am 95% happy with it. I have found, that when I play certain tracks and have the volume on the generous side, it has a kind of "drowny" fee lto it, almos tas if when it has a strong bass line going, at teh same time the kick drum bangs out a tune, its as if the filters find it to much work and the volume drops... Ever so slightly, and most people simply cannot notice it, but I do... I have been and spent a small fortune on my audio setups in the house and I do notice it.

Last week, I swapped it for the ASUS STRIX purely cos that has been back in its box for a good year or so now, and I think thats a slightly better sound ( although in the past I was on the fence... Withotu any FX it is, but with FX the creative is better ) but after a few days, I decided not to use it as it seemed that games would kind of slow down a jot... Since going back to the Creative, the Games are still jittering so bugger knows why, cos they never did before I tried swapping them over. Oh yeah, and the headphone socket taht connects to the case isnt on the Strix but it is on the creative.

MY Main Linux machine has been using the Xonar DGX for a while and this was only used for a giggle... The XFI Fatality that I normally use was, like teh strix, on the shelf, and I have just swapped them back over, and weirdly, Linux isnt seeing the XFI and it was seeing the Xonar DGX, however I was using the Optical output and its probably me, but it had issues.

I might put the STRIX into the Linux PC to have a play.

I bought the Z906 speakers a few years ago, and I was utterly underwhelmed, however, it has multiple inputs and I found that handy because I am using a DVI KVM to go between my Win, Lin, Hackintosh and Server Machines and so I forced myself to stick with it, but I have put my mission speakers onto it cos teh supplied ones are awful... Its acceptable sound quality but in no way can be anything professional.

All these cards are great and you cannot really go wrong with them, they all have 5.1 ( or higher ) and they all have both Analog and Optical outputs ( Strix has Digital but not optical )

I wil be honest, but the DGX is a fantastic little card considering you can get them for almost nothing these days, as Reality Bites said ,£12? - go for it at that price!
 
I think that's a B grade for the DGX. Think it's about £35 new. Not available many places now it seems. I can see one seller is selling it for £73 on a certain site, which is a whole load of LOL at that price!

Trouble with any sound card, is that however good it is as a piece of hardware, software is always the let down. If it's not Asus or Creative with their lame driver support, it's Microsoft with their updates screwing around with something.

I'd take an external DAC every time now; but then, I have no use or want for anything other than stereo. Having said that though; just basic stereo audio via USB is not safe from Windows sound issues. Heck knows what people would do if audio on Windows didn't work at all, whether it be sound card, onboard audio or external DAC! :eek:
 
73 quid? Hells bells, its no way worth THAT much! - £35 is about how much I paid... I got the PCIx version first but I wnated the stock PCI and in typical me fashion, I simply ordered the one I wanted, knowing that I will one day use the PCIX one.

Im not 100% but it was about the time that Creative drivers were being really iffy for me for the first time ever.

ASUS were also doing their tricks with me on Windows 10 ( 64 Bit ) for a while and the STRIX was a right pain in the bum for a while.

The DX2 I think seems to have no issues, but then thats in my old I7-970 and even though thats still far more power than I truthfully need and has 48GB RAM, I never use it that much, other than to occasionally keep it running and up to date with updates and drivers... Kind of like I occasionally run bikes I dont ride anymore, just so if and when I do, they are ready to go.

I agree with driver support and then Microsoft being so bloody rotten with their attempts to dominate, by installing what they want over any manufactuirers drivers, regardless of whether they are good or not.
 
Just picking up on the motherboard audio thing. My experience there is a big variance on motherboard audio, generally I find it not very good.

Maybe the worse I've ever had is my current Gigabyte Z370-HD3P it has a really thin sound, mids all washed out, but worse oscillating inference. Maybe I got a motherboard with defected audio, thankfully I use an Asus ST so just disabled the on board.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom