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Zen 4 server CPUs to launch end of 2022, Zen 4 desktop CPUs Q1/Q2 2023?

g67575

g67575

g67575

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AMD released the server (EPYC) counterparts of each Zen generation, before the full line up of the respective Ryzen CPUs generations were released, which you can see here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epyc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_(first_generation_microarchitecture)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zen_3#Vermeer - Edit not for Zen 3 EPYC CPUs, which were reportedly delayed.

A recent AMD roadmap indicates server (codename Genoa) and cloud Zen 4 CPUs will launch at the end of 2022, link here:
https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/VyxE2xAMvdjFYNstAgucCY-1024-80.jpg.webp

But no mention of desktop Zen 4 (5nm EUV), so it looks likely that these CPUs won't launch until the 1st half of 2023, based on past launches.

If this is true, it would certainly take the pressure off Intel in 2022, until they can release 7nm Meteor Lake CPUs the following year. We will have to wait to see if AMD confirms the launch date of Zen 4 desktop CPUs in the coming months.

AMD also has new Zen 3 CPUs launching with additional cache (V-Cache) launching in Q1 2022, which seems likely to be called the Ryzen 6000 series (new CPU generations are usually launched every 12-18 months). Looking at AMD's past launches, they don't tend to launch two generations in a single year.

It's just a theory, so don't bite my head off please :)
 
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You do post some weird threads, and in this case also poorly researched.

From your own links Zen 3 Ryzen was launched October 8th 2020, EPYC Milan was 15th March 2021. Zen 2 was closer but still Ryzen came a month *before* EPYC, not after.

For Tier 1 customers the EPYC variants are around earlier but largely that's for verification and not mass production/usage, for example it was made clear MS Azure has access to the 'Milan-X' 3D Cache chips already.
 
Well going by the dates on Wikipedia, I think what I wrote was true for Zen 1 and Zen 2, some desktop CPUs did release after the EPYC counterparts. But you're correct, Zen 3 desktop CPUs released before the counterpart EPYC CPUs, an oversight on my part.

As you say though Zen 3 EPYC CPUs, were available to some customers earlier (e.g. for super computers), but a full release wasn't possible until later on, reportedly due to supply issues, according to this article:
https://www.heise.de/news/AMD-Zen-3-Vorstellung-neuer-Epyc-Prozessoren-Anfang-2021-4962007.html

With Zen 1 and 2, it's a mixed picture, with some desktop CPUs released before server CPUs and some after.

We'll have to see about the Zen 4 desktop parts, but so far there's nothing to suggest they will release in 2022. It would certainly make sense for AMD to use the 5nm process for server CPUs though, as a die shrink should allow for higher core counts than on EPYC 7nm CPUs, and therefore, they should be highly profitable.

Apparently, there will be 96 core EPYC CPUs. There's also some cloud CPUs, which will have 128 cores, but these won't release until 2023:
https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/news/amd-unveils-zen-4-cpu-roadmap-96-core-5nm-genoa-128-core-begamo

It seems like AMD would have quite an advantage with 5nm based Zen 4 servers going up against Intel's 10nm 'Sapphire Rapids' servers in 2022, if there aren't significant supply issues which affect 5nm Zen 4 CPU production.

@SKILL - What do you think though, will we see Zen 4 desktop CPUs in 2022?
 
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That would be very weird

since in your other thread we came to the conclusion that Raptor lake is getting skipped and Intel is going straight to 5nm Meteor Lake in 2022 with lots of extra cores and huge IPC increase and now you're saying no Zen 4 till 2023. Would amd allow such pain
 
@Grim5 - I don't see why not, AMD was ahead for ages with CPUs like the 5600X and 5800X, so Zen 3 + V-Cache shouldn't be too far behind Intel's 12th gen.

By the looks of things, the fab process for Zen 3 + v-Cache will be 7nm, but it will be optimized for SRAM usage. This is how Anandtech describes this "it uses SRAM-optimized libraries of TSMC's 7nm process". SRAM is basically fast memory used for cache and CPU registers. Link here:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/1672...acked-vcache-technology-2-tbsec-for-15-gaming

It terms of it seeming weird, 2022 is gonna be a weird year I reckon, for lots of reasons :D

Meteor Lake and Zen 4 desktop CPUs in the 1st half of 2023, why not? Meteor Lake is reportedly going into production in the 2nd half of 2022, so it won't be released until 2023.
 
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Zen 4 Desktop are not on that roadmap because its a data centre roadmap.

This is what Dr Lisa Sue said about Zen 4 Desktop, in that presentation, "Zen 4 Ryzen CPU's are on track for a 2022 release"
 
@humbug - Couldn't find that bit. I'll keep looking

I did find this though in that presentation, link here:
https://youtu.be/sU8QJdZ_WfQ?t=397
Lisa Su "Genoa will be our first server CPU using that Zen 4 core in 5nm". So, confirmation of Genoa in 2022.

Perhaps the obvious conclusion to draw, is that AMD would rather not announce the launch date of desktop Zen 4 CPUs until much later, because if the launch date was announced to be Q1 2023, some might be inclined to hold onto their money until then, rather than buy what's available in 2022 (Zen 3 + V-Cache).
 
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g67575 said:
Well going by the dates on Wikipedia, I think what I wrote was true for Zen 1 and Zen 2, some desktop CPUs did release after the EPYC counterparts. But you're correct, Zen 3 desktop CPUs released before the counterpart EPYC CPUs, an oversight on my part.

As you say though Zen 3 EPYC CPUs, were available to some customers earlier (e.g. for super computers), but a full release wasn't possible until later on, reportedly due to supply issues, according to this article:
https://www.heise.de/news/AMD-Zen-3-Vorstellung-neuer-Epyc-Prozessoren-Anfang-2021-4962007.html

With Zen 1 and 2, it's a mixed picture, with some desktop CPUs released before server CPUs and some after.

We'll have to see about the Zen 4 desktop parts, but so far there's nothing to suggest they will release in 2022. It would certainly make sense for AMD to use the 5nm process for server CPUs though, as a die shrink should allow for higher core counts than on EPYC 7nm CPUs, and therefore, they should be highly profitable.

Apparently, there will be 96 core EPYC CPUs. There's also some cloud CPUs, which will have 128 cores, but these won't release until 2023:
https://www.tomshardware.com/uk/news/amd-unveils-zen-4-cpu-roadmap-96-core-5nm-genoa-128-core-begamo

It seems like AMD would have quite an advantage with 5nm based Zen 4 servers going up against Intel's 10nm 'Sapphire Rapids' servers in 2022, if there aren't significant supply issues which affect 5nm Zen 4 CPU production.

@SKILL - What do you think though, will we see Zen 4 desktop CPUs in 2022?
Click to expand...

Haven't they already announced the intention for Ryzen Zen4 chips to be out Q4 2022? I mean it could slip but I don't see any reason so far why it should. So yeah, I expect to see Zen4 desktop CPUs at the end of 2022.

I'm not sure obviously but I don't think Sapphire Rapids will change the market too much to require them to push EPYC out 'early'. To date EPYC has been able to quite easily offer more performance (due largely to more cores) with much better performance/watt than Xeons. Sapphire Rapids is up against Milan-X with all the cache and I don't see that picture changing at all.
 
Zen4 CPU's will launch in Q4 '22 for Desktop at the latest, alongside AM5 an the next chipset with the newer features, PCI-E 5.0/DDR5/USB 4.0 etc.

Zen 3.5 (3Dvcache) is not in the usual cadence of releases, and can be classified as a bonus release for a now dead-end platform, which will offer some competition to Intel Alder Lake for the next 6-9 months.

MilanX - EPYC is already in production and shipping to customers, so we know the chiplets are being mass produced and can be used in either EPYC/Threadripper(???)/Ryzen AM4.
 
I'm not sure if AMD have ever specifically said desktop Zen 4 (Ryzen) CPUs would launch in 2022. The roadmaps just tend to say 'Zen 4', it's pretty general.

I'm by no means sure what will happen, I'm just giving you my impression so far.

Consider that they are already launching Zen 4 server CPUs in late 2022, could there be sufficient capacity for both desktop and server parts in the same quarter? I really don't know.

From AMD's point of view, Zen 3 + V-Cache may be considered enough to compete with Alder Lake. Alder Lake is around 5-10% ahead of Zen 3 on average in games, based on Techpowerup reviews. I think AMD could easily make up this ground in games, but possibly lose a little ground in more general CPU tasks. The difference in DDR4/5 performance tends to be within 1-2%, with DDR4 still ahead in a few games, but this only really applies when compared to high frequency, expensive DDR5 RAM.

So just like the Ryzen 5000 series, I think the following generation will be great for gaming. Plus it should be an easy and relatively cheap upgrade for people using recent AM4 boards, this is it's strongest selling point.
 
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g67575 said:
I'm not sure if AMD have ever specifically said desktop Zen 4 (Ryzen) CPUs would launch in 2022. The roadmaps just tend to say 'Zen 4', it's pretty general.
Click to expand...

AMD’s Director of Technical Marketing, Robert Hallock, sat down with John Taylor, who is AMD’s Chief Marketing Officer, for an in-depth conversation about Ryzen and the future of AMD.

Robert Hallock and John Taylor sat down to discuss the entire architecture, and how the company managed to hit different milestones in the world of semiconductors. AMD also confirmed its new AM5 platform will launch in 2022, and it’ll support both PCIe 5.0 and DDR5 memory at launch.

Two minutes into the “AMD Ryzen Processors: 5 Years Later” video, the two individuals are taking a trip down the memory lane, recalling how the company unveiled “Ryzen” with a couple of performances demos at launch. Robert then continues to talk about Ryzen’s new platform. “In 2022 Ryzen will have a new platform and some key ingredients are DDR5, PCI Express Gen 5, and cooler compatibility with existing AM4 coolers,” he says.
 
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@uscool - Well spotted you're right. About 7 minutes into the video he discusses a new platform for Ryzen CPUs in 2022.

EDIT - I've looked at this again, the topic of conversation is mostly about AMD's platforms.
 
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g67575 said:
@uscool - Well spotted you're right. About 7 minutes into the video he discusses a new platform for Ryzen CPUs in 2022. This *might* just mean that Zen 4 based Threadripper CPUs are scheduled to be released first, with other Zen 4 CPUs coming later, in 2023.
Click to expand...

It literally says AM4 cooler compatibility, not TRX80 etc.

“In 2022 Ryzen will have a new platform and some key ingredients are DDR5, PCI Express Gen 5, and cooler compatibility with existing AM4 coolers,” he says.
 
g67575 said:
@uscool - Well spotted you're right. About 7 minutes into the video he discusses a new platform for Ryzen CPUs in 2022. This *might* just mean that Zen 4 based Threadripper CPUs are scheduled to be released first, with other Zen 4 CPUs coming later, in 2023.
Click to expand...

as above big clue he mentions AM4 coolers
 
Looking forward to Zen4. Integrated iGPU, DDR5, PCI-Ev5. I hope AMD beats the Intel chip it ends up competing against (Raptor Lake or Meteor Lake I guess) considerably, to continue the progress that competition has granted us :)
 
g67575 said:
@uscool - Well spotted you're right. About 7 minutes into the video he discusses a new platform for Ryzen CPUs in 2022. This *might* just mean that Zen 4 based Threadripper CPUs are scheduled to be released first, with other Zen 4 CPUs coming later, in 2023.
Click to expand...

Threadripper != Ryzen
 
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