Zen Internet - Best Modem/Router

sansnom · 11 May 2015 at 14:24

Just signed up to Zen - need to get a Router or Modem/Router

Did a search on the forums and this has been asked before but it's quite old now so wanted to check if the advice given is still up to date and whether there's a better option for my situation.

Phoneline is going under the stairs, router/modem going next to it. Old Victoriaon property, solid walls, 15inch thick staircase.

I was hoping for the most rock solid modem/router or just router to go with for Zen - needs to be PnP as I don't know jack about how to configure one. I just want it to 'work'

So what's the best Modem/Router or Router to get sub £250? I could've sworn I read somewhere to avoid Asus Modem/Routers but their stand-alone Routers are good?

how bout this ridiculous piece of hardware?

ASUS 3200 Triband

Router should be able to handle a lot of connections (15+ in the house), 24 port switch/patch panel, NAS and HTPC

KIA · 11 May 2015 at 15:25

ADSLx or VDSL2 aka "Fibre"?

sansnom · 11 May 2015 at 15:30

KIA said:
ADSLx or VDSL2 aka "Fibre"?

sorry, that would be Fibre (78/19)

kaktus · 12 May 2015 at 09:29

That thing looks absurd can't imagine why anyone would need that

If you're looking for a heavy duty almost commercial level router, TP-Link does some great ones.

I'd also avoid the Asus DSL-xxx routers - by all respects they are terrible. Fine routers just terrible modems.

thenewoc · 12 May 2015 at 10:13

I assume from your switch you have ethernet sockets throughout the house?

If so, from what you've said about thick walls etc, i'd go for something like an edgemax router lite, then at strategic places where you have ethernet sockets place wireless access points, perhaps one on each level of the property.

sansnom · 13 May 2015 at 14:49

Christ...never a straight answer with you lot is it

thenewoc said:
I assume from your switch you have ethernet sockets throughout the house?

If so, from what you've said about thick walls etc, i'd go for something like an edgemax router lite, then at strategic places where you have ethernet sockets place wireless access points, perhaps one on each level of the property.

I was thinking about that, but I'm not sure how effective having these wireless repeaters around the house would be from a stability and latency perspective?

I was hoping for just a one-size-fits-all kind of modem/router or router to use with BT OR modem. Something that would be powerful enough to get the signal to most corners of the house and enough power to handle tons of connections and potentially a home media distribution system through the HTPC (feeding several TVs)

thenewoc · 13 May 2015 at 21:34

sansnom said:
Christ...never a straight answer with you lot is it

I was thinking about that, but I'm not sure how effective having these wireless repeaters around the house would be from a stability and latency perspective?

I was hoping for just a one-size-fits-all kind of modem/router or router to use with BT OR modem. Something that would be powerful enough to get the signal to most corners of the house and enough power to handle tons of connections and potentially a home media distribution system through the HTPC (feeding several TVs)

Personally I think a lot of the wireless signal would be shielded by closing it away in a cupboard in that type of house. The speeds from a wireless router will drop off over distance and obstacles so If you have proper ethernet sockets throughout the house with power sockets also close by then the separate wireless access points would give better performance than a comparable single wireless router closed away.

That ASUS 3200 doesn't support MU-MIMO btw which I think would be a must have for a large household.

The wireless access point connected to an ethernet socket wouldn't be a repeater. Think of it as the wireless part of a router but located closer to the users accessing it. On that note if you have an existing router you may also be able to use that in AP mode for one wireless access point.

The problem will be finding decent wireless access points that have decent 802.11ac speeds and MU-MIMO.

Last time I looked one of the best value wireless access points I could find in the consumer market devices was from D-Link (DAP-1665) which is AC1200, probably doesn't support MU-MIMO though.

As you seem to have ethernet sockets from the mention of a patch panel I think you should be steering as many of the users toward connecting via ethernet. If you have a lack of ethernet sockets you can connect additional network switches at faceplate ethernet sockets throughout the house. The ethernet route should be favoured for PC's, TV's, consoles and any other high bandwidth devices and keep the wireless for mobile devices.

If you could run an ethernet cable from the modem to somewhere more central and not shut away you might get away with a single router, near to a stair well for instance.

These are a few MU-MIMO routers, some may not yet be available though like the TP-Link.

D-Link AC3200 Ultra Wi-Fi Router, Asus RT-AC87U, NETGEAR Nighthawk X4 AC2350, Linksys Max-Stream EA8500, TP-Link Archer C2600

eldergeek · 14 May 2015 at 08:15

I'm currently shopping around for a better ISP as my contract for everything on sky ends in september, as I'm tired of being locked to the sky hub, and tired of being told which sites I can and can't frequent. I have two questions. Possibly 3:

1.) Will Zen install multiple lines 2 a domestic site?
2.) Will they offer discounts for multiple accounts?
3.) How are they as a service?

sansnom · 14 May 2015 at 12:07

eldergeek said:
I'm currently shopping around for a better ISP as my contract for everything on sky ends in september, as I'm tired of being locked to the sky hub, and tired of being told which sites I can and can't frequent. I have two questions. Possibly 3:

1.) Will Zen install multiple lines 2 a domestic site?
2.) Will they offer discounts for multiple accounts?
3.) How are they as a service?

dont worry about derailing my thread or anything

1. No reason why they shouldn't install as many lines as you want to pay for
2. No idea, speak to Zen
3. Good so far but then I only ordered a few days ago so won't know till I'm in the thick of it, so to speak, from all I've heard they're supposed to be excellent

sansnom · 14 May 2015 at 12:26

thenewoc said:
Personally I think a lot of the wireless signal would be shielded by closing it away in a cupboard in that type of house. The speeds from a wireless router will drop off over distance and obstacles so If you have proper ethernet sockets throughout the house with power sockets also close by then the separate wireless access points would give better performance than a comparable single wireless router closed away.

That ASUS 3200 doesn't support MU-MIMO btw which I think would be a must have for a large household.

The wireless access point connected to an ethernet socket wouldn't be a repeater. Think of it as the wireless part of a router but located closer to the users accessing it. On that note if you have an existing router you may also be able to use that in AP mode for one wireless access point.

The problem will be finding decent wireless access points that have decent 802.11ac speeds and MU-MIMO.

Last time I looked one of the best value wireless access points I could find in the consumer market devices was from D-Link (DAP-1665) which is AC1200, probably doesn't support MU-MIMO though.

As you seem to have ethernet sockets from the mention of a patch panel I think you should be steering as many of the users toward connecting via ethernet. If you have a lack of ethernet sockets you can connect additional network switches at faceplate ethernet sockets throughout the house. The ethernet route should be favoured for PC's, TV's, consoles and any other high bandwidth devices and keep the wireless for mobile devices.

If you could run an ethernet cable from the modem to somewhere more central and not shut away you might get away with a single router, near to a stair well for instance.

These are a few MU-MIMO routers, some may not yet be available though like the TP-Link.

D-Link AC3200 Ultra Wi-Fi Router, Asus RT-AC87U, NETGEAR Nighthawk X4 AC2350, Linksys Max-Stream EA8500, TP-Link Archer C2600

Super helpful - thanks!

It looks like from that list the Asus AC87u trumps the Netgear and D-link but doesn't have MIMO.

f I want a MIMO router I'd have to wait and see what the Linksys and TP-Link will be like when they're available to buy. Not sure I have that long as I need it before installation next Wednesday.

Will the Asus have MIMO with future firmware updates or is that a no-go?

thenewoc · 14 May 2015 at 14:03

sansnom said:
Super helpful - thanks!

It looks like from that list the Asus AC87u trumps the Netgear and D-link but doesn't have MIMO.

f I want a MIMO router I'd have to wait and see what the Linksys and TP-Link will be like when they're available to buy. Not sure I have that long as I need it before installation next Wednesday.

Will the Asus have MIMO with future firmware updates or is that a no-go?

I've not compared those models to each other to comment.

The ASUS is meant to have MU-MIMO, well it supposedly has a chipset capable of it but like a lot of products pushing the boundaries they sometimes get released to market before all the kinks have been ironed out. It's not clear from the firmware changelog whether they have added MU-MIMO to the ASUS or whether the feature can be accessed from ASUSWRT.

Your client devices will also need to be capable of MU-MIMO to make use of it too.

I'm keeping an eye on the TP-Link hoping it will be more competitively priced than the others but no idea how soon it will be available.

sansnom · 14 May 2015 at 15:34

thenewoc said:
I've not compared those models to each other to comment.

The ASUS is meant to have MU-MIMO, well it supposedly has a chipset capable of it but like a lot of products pushing the boundaries they sometimes get released to market before all the kinks have been ironed out. It's not clear from the firmware changelog whether they have added MU-MIMO to the ASUS or whether the feature can be accessed from ASUSWRT.

Your client devices will also need to be capable of MU-MIMO to make use of it too.

I'm keeping an eye on the TP-Link hoping it will be more competitively priced than the others but no idea how soon it will be available.

Oh I see, doubt I've got any devices that will have MIMO support then as all of them are 2+ years old. Maybe HTPC might have it but thats going to be wired through the switch anyway, not sure if that makes a difference?

On that basis I'll probably end up going with the Asus. I noticed in another thread some people were recommending an R7000 over both the AC68 and AC87...something to do with stability. I haven't seen on any of the reviews of the AC87 that it has stability issues - have you?

thenewoc · 14 May 2015 at 15:51

Yeah the thing is with the latest tech is its nearly always buggy to begin with.

These people seem to do pretty good reviews but as with most the review sites they want to review things upon release which is not always when a product is at its best.

They mention stability issues in this review but looking at the firmware changelog it has received quite a few updates already so most of the issues may have been addressed by now.

http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wire...and-wireless-ac2400-gigabit-router-first-look

thenewoc · 14 May 2015 at 15:55

The other option is to go with a more middle the road router to begin with, even something second hand and then sell it later when the current emerging tech has bedded in better.

I was reading somewhere that some of these latest router features are or can be somewhat proprietary because the manufacturers are racing to get product to market before the standards have been written. A bit like when we had draft 802.11n.

sansnom · 14 May 2015 at 16:56

thenewoc said:
The other option is to go with a more middle the road router to begin with, even something second hand and then sell it later when the current emerging tech has bedded in better.

I was reading somewhere that some of these latest router features are or can be somewhat proprietary because the manufacturers are racing to get product to market before the standards have been written. A bit like when we had draft 802.11n.

I've got an n66u lying around somewhere but my wife lost the antennas so I'd have to buy some new ones... :rolleyes:

would that suffice?

Danny091 · 14 May 2015 at 17:03

sansnom said:
I've got an n66u lying around somewhere but my wife lost the antennas so I'd have to buy some new ones... would that suffice?

You could pick up a HG612 modem from ebay (if you dont get a modem with zen) and it should work fine. With the HG you can unlock it to access stat's ect.

I'm with plusnet but i find having a modem separate from the router is great, mean you can fiddle and restart the router as much as you like without resycing the modem causing speed / interleaving problems.

sansnom · 14 May 2015 at 17:05

Danny091 said:
You could pick up a HG612 modem from ebay (if you dont get a modem with zen) and it should work fine. With the HG you can unlock it to access stat's ect.

I'm with plusnet but i find having a modem separate from the router is great, mean you can fiddle and restart the router as much as you like without resycing the modem causing speed / interleaving problems.

I think they're installing the standard open reach modem, just thought it was supposedly crap and thought it might be better to get a premium integrated solution but the more I read the more it seems that a separate modem / router solution is the way to go.

thenewoc · 14 May 2015 at 18:55

I wanted a combined router with modem but I came to the same conclusion that separates is the way to go. If you want open source firmware like dd-wrt at some point then its more likely on a separate router to be available at some point rather than for a combined modem and router combo. I think the separate Openreach modem is better than an integrated one too.

thenewoc · 14 May 2015 at 19:46

sansnom said:
I've got an n66u lying around somewhere but my wife lost the antennas so I'd have to buy some new ones... would that suffice?

Certainly worth a try for the minimal cost of some new antennas. Once it's set up you could use a smart phone app to analyse the strength of the signal around the home. If it's not ideal it may suffice in the short term and then you could use it as an additional access point to complement whatever you choose as a main router at a later point.

sansnom · 14 May 2015 at 22:40

thenewoc said:
Certainly worth a try for the minimal cost of some new antennas. Once it's set up you could use a smart phone app to analyse the strength of the signal around the home. If it's not ideal it may suffice in the short term and then you could use it as an additional access point to complement whatever you choose as a main router at a later point.

any idea where I can pickup 3 suitable antennas quick? only ones I can find are on amazon/ebay and delivery is weeks