zero hour contracts

GAC

GAC

GAC

Soldato
Joined
11 Dec 2004
Posts
4,688
seems the news today has finally picked up on this disgusting way of employing people, shame its only going to be a brief mention for a day or two and then forgotten about again.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/jul/28/sports-direct-staff-zero-hour-contracts

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/300000-people-on-zero-hours-contracts-in-social-care-alone-8688796.html

now the sports direct one is bad but if the figures are correct for 300k employed within social care that's just wrong, it will be even more of a mess for whoever try's to tackle it and get them on proper contracts with actual on call payments.

just annoys me that people are willing to work such contracts rather than demanding contracted hours, the more people who swallow these contracts the more its going to spread, if they arnt made illegal i can see the vast majority of retail being zero hour in a year or two. especially with companies like asda who have 90% of their staff on 16 hour contracts to start with and work them 40 hours a week so they can save on sick and holiday pay.
 
It really does need looking into with the way some employers go about it. Once again though as long as it benefits them and nobody else they couldn't give a hoot.
 
Well the choice is either accept the zero hour contract, or don't work for that company - and you can't always be that picky.

My girlfriend was working in social care and had a zero hour contract - it irked me no end, but it was that or nothing.
 
GeX said:
Well the choice is either accept the zero hour contract, or don't work for that company - and you can't always be that picky.

My girlfriend was working in social care and had a zero hour contract - it irked me no end, but it was that or nothing.
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I use zero hour contracts, if I did not I would be out of business. Social sevices are driving down costs where quality is an after thought with savings been the main motivator when contracting. When Social Services are marking bids 60% of the mark is on cost.

Social Care work is variable you have customers going into restbite, holidays, hospital cancelling care etc. Without zero hour contracts I would have to pay staff when they had no work on. Which could possibly mean redundacies.

We are looking at annualised contracts but they also have their problems. Say for example you 16 hours contract, you rota is down 1 hour per week and after a set period if you did not work your time back up to a 16 hour average you would have to pay back any monies owed.
 
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wnb said:
I use zero hour contracts, if I did not I would be out of business. Social sevices are driving down costs where quality is an after thought with savings been the main motivator when contracting. When Social Services are marking bids 60% of the mark is on cost.

Social Care work is variable you have customers going into restbite, holidays, hospital cancelling care etc. Without zero hour contracts I would have to pay staff when they had no work on. Which could possibly mean redundacies.
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see this a lot all over and tbh companies need to start being realistic when they put in for a contract rather than just trying to undercut each other to get a contract and then have to pay min wage and try and make savings elsewhere.

generally speaking though its the larger companies putting in silly contracts at a loss just to take business from smaller companies so they get that magical market share.

sita clean did it in the 90's for rubbish collecting where i live and they undercut the best next company by 20% just to take the market share.

true though local authoritys have been cutting care for years and now the countrys on its backside its falling apart. dont blame you for using such contracts as you have to go against the larger companies doing the same, hopefully if local authorities are forced to not use zero hour staff you'l be in a better position and better placed to offer part time contracts rather than zero hour.

pitchfork said:
People wonder why I'm in a union.

Workers have forgetten they have rights to fair treatment it would seem.
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hahah unions yeah, iv watched unions do sod all for people on agency and zero hour contracts, all they care about is full time contracted workers. half the problems we have now with zero hour contracts are thanks to unions not giving a monkeys as it doesnt effect there main members.
 
GAC said:
seems the news today has finally picked up on this disgusting way of employing people, shame its only going to be a brief mention for a day or two and then forgotten about again.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/jul/28/sports-direct-staff-zero-hour-contracts

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/300000-people-on-zero-hours-contracts-in-social-care-alone-8688796.html

now the sports direct one is bad but if the figures are correct for 300k employed within social care that's just wrong, it will be even more of a mess for whoever try's to tackle it and get them on proper contracts with actual on call payments.

just annoys me that people are willing to work such contracts rather than demanding contracted hours, the more people who swallow these contracts the more its going to spread, if they arnt made illegal i can see the vast majority of retail being zero hour in a year or two. especially with companies like asda who have 90% of their staff on 16 hour contracts to start with and work them 40 hours a week so they can save on sick and holiday pay.
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I work for ASDA and have no idea what your on about, nearly everyone I work with are on contracts of 30+ hours and holiday pay is paid proportionately to the hours worked, this includes overtime.
 
MadMossy said:
I work for ASDA and have no idea what your on about, nearly everyone I work with are on contracts of 30+ hours and holiday pay is paid proportionately to the hours worked, this includes overtime.
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could be different store to store, im guessing the manager has the final say on who's on what but my cousin was on a 16 hour contract for 10 years and worked the majority of weeks at 40 hours. as do a lot of people in that store. the only people he knew on 30-40 hours where managerial staff and supervisors. everyone else is 16 hours.
 
MadMossy said:
I work for ASDA and have no idea what your on about, nearly everyone I work with are on contracts of 30+ hours and holiday pay is paid proportionately to the hours worked, this includes overtime.
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Seems the OP didn't read his own link, otherwise he would have seen this...

The four biggest supermarkets in Britain, Tesco, Asda, Sainsbury's and Morrisons, said they do not use zero-hour contracts
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estebanrey said:
Seems the OP didn't read his own link, otherwise he would have seen this...
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seems you didnt read either, i didnt say they used zero hour contracts but used 16 hour contracts for a lot of their staff.

like i said above my local store is full of them to save on holiday and sick pay.
 
GAC said:
could be different store to store, im guessing the manager has the final say on who's on what but my cousin was on a 16 hour contract for 10 years and worked the majority of weeks at 40 hours. as do a lot of people in that store. the only people he knew on 30-40 hours where managerial staff and supervisors. everyone else is 16 hours.
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That's no a zero hour contract.

Besides, they do have their uses, very useful for students for example. It's when companies start using them for the wrong people it becomes an issue.
 
Either way a 16 hour contract is a million times better than a zero hour one. Holiday Pay/Sick pay should be paid the average hours worked over a 12 week period. So if he has been working 40+ hours a week as overtime his holiday pay should be based on that.
 
i never said asda used them but I COULD SEE THEM doing so in a year or two.

as for what happened with my cousin i cant comment how it is now as he left about 2 years ago due to the lack of a real contract.

as for the 12 week thing im guessing your talking about the working time directive that was brought in. iv seen that at work in local authorities with part time staff working 10 weeks at 40 and then 3-4 at reduced levels, and then rinse and repeat.
 
GAC said:
see this a lot all over and tbh companies need to start being realistic when they put in for a contract rather than just trying to undercut each other to get a contract and then have to pay min wage and try and make savings elsewhere.

generally speaking though its the larger companies putting in silly contracts at a loss just to take business from smaller companies so they get that magical market share.

sita clean did it in the 90's for rubbish collecting where i live and they undercut the best next company by 20% just to take the market share.

true though local authoritys have been cutting care for years and now the countrys on its backside its falling apart. dont blame you for using such contracts as you have to go against the larger companies doing the same, hopefully if local authorities are forced to not use zero hour staff you'l be in a better position and better placed to offer part time contracts rather than zero hour
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We ended up with a (b) contract I wont go into details but an (a) contract is far better. We scored very high on quality and poorly on cost. We eventually found out the hourly price for the a large competitor and they are 23% less than our hourly rate.

In the 18 months since the contracts have started two A list providers have been suspended. The whole framework has not worked, I have done my best to take on as much work as I possibly can and I was the only provider taking on work for a 6 month period. Things got that bad the LA brought in specialist company to look at the A lsit providers recruitment process and staff retention. Meanwile I was invited into the Civic centre and thanked persoanlly for the work that I did and without us the hospital would be beyond breaking point.

It is now 7 month later and all has been forgotten. The A list providers are back on the contract and we dont get calls from social services anymore for refferals.

Am I bitter? The LA got what they wanted they saved 2 million a year and they got the cheapest providers at the cost of quailty.
 
wnb said:
We ended up with a (b) contract I wont go into details but an (a) contract is far better. We scored very high on quality and poorly on cost. We eventually found out the hourly price for the a large competitor and they are 23% less than our hourly rate.

In the 18 months since the contracts have started two A list providers have been suspended. The whole framework has not worked, I have done my best to take on as much work as I possibly can and I was the only provider taking on work for a 6 month period. Things got that bad the LA brought in specialist company to look at the A lsit providers recruitment process and staff retention. Meanwile I was invited into the Civic centre and thanked persoanlly for the work that I did and without us the hospital would be beyond breaking point.

It is now 7 month later and all has been forgotten. The A list providers are back on the contract and we dont get calls from social services anymore for refferals.

Am I bitter? The LA got what they wanted they saved 2 million a year and they got the cheapest providers at the cost of quailty.
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same ole story when it comes to LA's though, anything to save money even if in the long run its going to cause major issues but then they will blame someone else and it will start all over again. :rolleyes:
 
Its exploitation but its rife in health and social care and has been for years. Im a bank worker which suits me fine while im training, If I dont want to work I can phone up to cancel 4 hours before a shift at the hospital, its great to have that flexibility on my end, but annoying when they do it to me. So in my case it goes both ways, but if I wasnt training it would be a nightmare, with that kind of uncertainty
 
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