AMD Polaris architecture – GCN 4.0

[FoxEye]

It looks like Polaris is targetting price points under $350:

http://wccftech.com/amd-polaris-architecture-vr-minimum-spec/

As well as price points above it.

Yer, looks like they are releasing a 290X/970 GPU that is at the $349 price point and as that is an AMD slide, I would put some stock into that. It translates to £300, which is an ok price.

They don't say there will be a 290X/370 spec card for $349, at all. They say:

"This will almost certainly mean that AMD is going to be shipping Polaris GPUs that are at least in equivalent in power to the R9 290 at a cost much lower than the $349 MSRP of the original."

I'm not sure how so many people have jumped to such concrete conclusions from an AMD presentation that leaves everything on the table, still.

Someone even suggested that the smallest Polaris GPU would be 290X performance.

It's all guesswork

 

[Gregster]

As well as price points above it.



They don't say there will be a 290X/370 spec card for $349, at all. They say:

"This will almost certainly mean that AMD is going to be shipping Polaris GPUs that are at least in equivalent in power to the R9 290 at a cost much lower than the $349 MSRP of the original."

I'm not sure how so many people have jumped to such concrete conclusions from an AMD presentation that leaves everything on the table, still.

Someone even suggested that the smallest Polaris GPU would be 290X performance.

It's all guesswork

I looked at the slide and skimmed read. Guilty as charged So yer, $348 is a good price

 

[pmc25]

Polaris 10 is a lower power/performance part. However, it will probably scale to in excess of GTX 960's performance. That means Polaris 10 should be able to occupy somewhere in the $170~$270 price bracket (in a cut-down version and an up-clocked full version - and possibly somewhere in between as well).

Polaris 11 is a higher performance part. No idea where it targets, don't even want to guess - but it'd make the most sense if it targeted 980Ti + 30%. The cut-down version(s) could then target 980 and 980Ti stock performance levels.

As for TSMC, AMD will continue to build Fiji and other GPUs until Polaris has to slip in price or they no longer can generate a profit. Demand for last generation GPUs doesn't cease immediately.

Polaris 11 was the second chip demonstrated behind closed doors in December & January. It's the mid size GDDR5 chip. It may well beat 980Ti in some games. I doubt it'll be more than 275mm2 though.

'Big' (not really big at likely below 400mm2) Polaris with HBM2 probably appears mid to late summer and AMD haven't shown it to anyone yet as far as we know.

 

[Mei]

lol watch the presentation

it was all about the future of VR, he didnt say anything like that, he said for VR to be popular the min spec card needs to be cheaper, they could even do that through drivers and software for all we know, or the new chip design could be better at doing that stuff

he didnt say a lot rly! tho the gaze reaction?? stuff sounded like a cheap way to make VR porn, they could be onto a winner there

 

[pmc25]

If the first 3 months production is at Samsung, then everything switches to GloFo, the statement that Polaris WILL be made at GloFo is still true.

One of the keys behind second sourcing and using the same process is that you can move fabs without having to tapeout a new version of the chip. Moving between Samsung/GloFo should be theoretically seamless. However GloFo have started production of 14nm, LPP was supposed to be qualified in Q3 and start production this quarter.

They won't do that. Samsung will as you say probably make all early chips, but they will also almost certainly make ALL hbm2 chips, since GF 14nm FF is in New York. They will not want GPU, HBM and interposer work to be done half a world away.

 

[AllBodies]

I looked at the slide and skimmed read. Guilty as charged So yer, $348 is a good price

Perhaps wishful thinking, but shouldn't we expect performance to move down at least 1 price point?

i.e. hopefully get 390/970 performance in the ~£200+ price range. They can be had for as little as £250 currently, so surely $349 isn't a very good price?

 

[humbug]

Perhaps wishful thinking, but shouldn't we expect performance to move down at least 1 price point?

i.e. hopefully get 390/970 performance in the ~£200+ price range. They can be had for as little as £250 currently, so surely $349 isn't a very good price?

+1, i'm looking for an upgrade....

I spent £300 on a 290, then £300 on a GTX 970 which is a side grade, I don't want yet another 290/970 for £300

After 3 years of £300 GPU's being the same performance I now want a GTX 980TI for £300. that's not unreasonable.

 

[Gregster]

Perhaps wishful thinking, but shouldn't we expect performance to move down at least 1 price point?

i.e. hopefully get 390/970 performance in the ~£200+ price range. They can be had for as little as £250 currently, so surely $349 isn't a very good price?

Quite agreed but seems to be the norm now for price matching previous gen cards and performance.

 

[Toss3]

lol watch the presentation

it was all about the future of VR, he didnt say anything like that, he said for VR to be popular the min spec card needs to be cheaper, they could even do that through drivers and software for all we know, or the new chip design could be better at doing that stuff

he didnt say a lot rly! tho the gaze reaction?? stuff sounded like a cheap way to make VR porn, they could be onto a winner there

It's not just the minimum spec cards that need to be cheaper - the VR headsets also need to become more affordable; 799€ is pretty steep for most, especially for those using 970> cards.

 

[FoxEye]

After 3 years of £300 GPU's being the same performance I now want a GTX 980TI for £300. that's not unreasonable.

If I was feeling particularly optimistic I'd be saying the same thing

But I'm (also guessing) that the £300, cut-down card will be a tad better than a 980, but less than a ti.

Like you I'm expecting 970 perf for roughly £200.

I'm just not sure either company wants to lower prices that much. AMD are the new "premium" brand, remember.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

If I was feeling particularly optimistic I'd be saying the same thing

But I'm (also guessing) that the £300, cut-down card will be a tad better than a 980, but less than a ti.

Like you I'm expecting 970 perf for roughly £200.

I'm just not sure either company wants to lower prices that much. AMD are the new "premium" brand, remember.

Well a GTX970 is 60% faster than my GTX960 4GB ,and that is around £150 to £200 so that level of performance at around £200 would make it a good upgrade for me.

 

[FoxEye]

Well a GTX970 is 60% faster than my GTX960 4GB ,and that is around £150 to £200 so that level of performance at around £200 would make it a good upgrade for me.

It's <40% better than a 380 or 280X tho, so it's only because the 960 is overpriced that you're getting such a big upgrade

 

[AllBodies]

If I was feeling particularly optimistic I'd be saying the same thing

But I'm (also guessing) that the £300, cut-down card will be a tad better than a 980, but less than a ti.

Like you I'm expecting 970 perf for roughly £200.

I'm just not sure either company wants to lower prices that much. AMD are the new "premium" brand, remember.

Well we also have the £350 Nano to use as a benchmark, and that's a tad faster than the 980.

So, for a wishlist, here's hoping for 970/390 performance at £200 and 980+/Nano performance for £300.

Seems a reasonable ask from AMD to me.

And thinking about it, Nano performance for £300 would be an extremely attractive prospect for VR.

 

[Orangey]

They won't do that. Samsung will as you say probably make all early chips, but they will also almost certainly make ALL hbm2 chips, since GF 14nm FF is in New York. They will not want GPU, HBM and interposer work to be done half a world away.

Now you're just making stuff up.

 

[humbug]

If I was feeling particularly optimistic I'd be saying the same thing

But I'm (also guessing) that the £300, cut-down card will be a tad better than a 980, but less than a ti.

Like you I'm expecting 970 perf for roughly £200.

I'm just not sure either company wants to lower prices that much. AMD are the new "premium" brand, remember.

If I don't get 'AT LEAST' 30% 'in real terms' over my current GPU I see no point in spending £300, I never buy used GPU's but if I don't get anything like 980TI performance for £300 I will be buying a used 980TI.

I couldn't give a flying ##### about how little power it uses, it could use 20 watts for all I care.... if its not 'significantly' faster than my 970 i'm not even remotely interested.

Take Note AMD/Nvidia.

 

[AllBodies]

If I don't get 'AT LEAST' 30% 'in real terms' over my current GPU I see no point in spending £300, I never buy used GPU's but if I don't get anything like 980TI performance for £300 I will be buying a used 980TI.

I couldn't give a flying ##### about how little power it uses, it could use 20 watts for all I care.... if its not 'significantly' faster than my 970 i'm not even remotely interested.

Take Note AMD/Nvidia.

I hear that.

I have my slight pessimistic hat on, but I'm hoping I can double my performance for £350-400. I'm on an overclocked 780 at the moment

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

It looks like AMD have a 232MM2 GPU in the works:

http://videocardz.com/58237/amds-project-f-is-232mm2-discrete-gpu-made-in-14lpp-process

If that is the larger Polaris 11 I suspect that it probably is around GTX970/R9 290 level performance,but probably runs off a single PCI-E power connector.

It's <40% better than a 380 or 280X tho, so it's only because the 960 is overpriced that you're getting such a big upgrade

Not when you paid under £110 for it!!!

 

[Mauller]

Has to be a higher end chip than the one demoed, that is pretty big for a low end 14nm chip. But tbh AMD could have a few chips up thier sleeve, just that they have only come out stating about polaris 10 and 11 so far.

 

[AllBodies]

It looks like AMD have a 232MM2 GPU in the works:

http://videocardz.com/58237/amds-project-f-is-232mm2-discrete-gpu-made-in-14lpp-process

If that is the larger Polaris 11 I suspect that it probably is around GTX970/R9 290 level performance.

Well that'd be 4mm2 bigger than a GTX 960, and would put it at approximately 140W TDP class (give or take depending on clockspeed).

With a 2x performance/watt increase, this could be the 'larger' chip and should be easily faster than a GTX 980


Mildly disappointing if this turns out to be the biggest chip we get for the first round. Was hoping to see something in the 290-300mm2 class, since that would reasonably guarantee being 980 TI+ performance.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Well that'd be 4mm2 bigger than a GTX 960, and would put it at approximately 140W TDP class (give or take depending on clockspeed).

With a 2x performance/watt increase, this could be the 'larger' chip and should be easily faster than a GTX 980

Personally I think GTX970/R9 290 level performance at £200 with lower power requirements.

Might get closer to an R9 390X or GTX980 if certain DX12 features are used.

Thats my estimation.

I think its a good strategy by AMD and might be a return to the "small die" strategy with the HD3000,HD4000 and HD5000 series.

Interestingly the link also says 14NM LPP has 15% better performance and power efficiency than 14NM LPE too.

Mildly disappointing if this turns out to be the biggest chip we get for the first round. Was hoping to see something in the 290-300mm2 class, since that would reasonably guarantee being 980 TI+ performance.

It might be more an effort to get the chips out quickly as possible,and make sure they can get good yields and pricing too. That way they can use it to get more traction in laptops,pre-built desktops and even in the DIY market. They do need to rebalance the 4 to 1 difference in sales ATM.

The die size is interesting - it actually is similar to what the ATI/AMD midrange chaps used to be before Tonga,ie,around 200MM2 to 250MM2.

OTH,if you are rocking a higher end AMD or Nvidia chip you are probably OK for now.