Soldato
If only, огонь заднем направлении ракетная.
Russian SU-24 - Shot Down by Turkey
- Thread starter Korsun
- Start date
Caporegime
Fresh humiliation for Soviet dictator Vladimir Putin, as Turkey releases the audio of her warnings to the Russian imperialist aggressors who deliberately violated her sovereign airspace:
(Source).
So now we have confirmation that the surviving pilot lied when he claimed no warning was given.
(Source).
So now we have confirmation that the surviving pilot lied when he claimed no warning was given.
no you don't
you have confirmation they transmitted warnings - you don't have confirmation that he heard/received any warnings... the US already confirmed they heard the warnings - the fact you've got some audio file you can now listen to doesn't change anything
The whole situation is still ridiculous and a needless escalation - they've at best merely skimmed a bit of Turkish territory while not actually heading towards Turkey proper - so not posing any more of a threat then any other Russian aircraft regularly operating in that region... just a technicality at best - they were maybe flying over a small bit of Turkish land containing nothing for a few seconds...
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Soldato
He might not have lied, he might just not have been monitoring guard frequency (which is still a daft thing to do).
I was on a flight years ago that was contacted by Pakistan air defence over guard frequency as we had missed a control check-in, demanding that we identify ourselves. We were all laughing about how they must be ****ing themselves, then realised it was us.
Commissario
Playing devils advocate is that audio verified by anyone else?
I suspect it will be as if it was on any of the normal frequencies used it'll have probably have been picked up by various air forces, ATC and plane spotters.
Of course having it transmitted doesn't mean that the pilots heard it if they weren't paying attention to the frequencies used.
I suspect it will be as if it was on any of the normal frequencies used it'll have probably have been picked up by various air forces, ATC and plane spotters.
Of course having it transmitted doesn't mean that the pilots heard it if they weren't paying attention to the frequencies used.
Commissario
It is however up to the aircraft and aircrew to be listening in to any calls on certain frequencies specifically to avoid this sort of situation.
If the Russians were not tuned into the guard frequency, or were ignoring it then it is very much their fault for ignoring basic aviation law and common sense.
For one thing if they're not paying any attention to, or don't have anything tuned to the ATC/guard frequencies in the airspace they're approaching/already in they're a menace to anything else in that airspace.
I'm just disputing the idea that it is confirmed the pilots lied... when it seems quite likely they had no idea they were about to be attacked
maybe they were ignoring the warnings - warnings are likely given quite regularly, maybe they're telling the truth - either way it is quite plausible they believed they were over Syrian territory
maybe they were ignoring the warnings - warnings are likely given quite regularly, maybe they're telling the truth - either way it is quite plausible they believed they were over Syrian territory
No one in NATO is backing Turkey in private.
Turkey is terrified and is back-pedalling from yesterday's triumphalism.
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/669619294297264129
Russia has intensified its attacks on Syrian Turkmen, Erdogan's idiotic scheme has massively backfired.
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actually they've said that from the start - they didn't initially claim to down a russian jet just a jet that had strayed into their territory
it was still reckless of them though
not surprising
Caporegime
Wow, that's some desperate straw-clutching if ever I saw it. How exactly can they fail to hear warnings that were broadcast directly to them? Talk me through that, please. Feel free to make extensive use of your professional qualifications in military radiocommunications.
Evidence please. How would you even know what's happening privately in NATO? I'm curious to hear all about your extensive connections with the upper echelons of NATO staff.
(Source).
Soldato
Evangelion, when transmitting on Guard, you're transmitting in clear to everyone and anyone. It's essentially an emergency frequency where you would broadcast "mayday" or an emergency beacon. As Werewolf alluded, it may have been taken off guard monitor though, which would put the pilot at fault for not listening. Mind you, we've switched ours off before when it is acting up, someone has their foot on their pressal, or our radio is stuck on the just that frequency or anything.
As for Strife212, I'm quite sure he is in a position of quite some knowledge on NATO to comment as such
As for Strife212, I'm quite sure he is in a position of quite some knowledge on NATO to comment as such
Caporegime
Man of Honour
Caporegime
I'll talk you through that even more briefly using my basic knowledge of how a radio works, I don't need to use my basic knowledge of military comms.
Radio 1 is currently broadcasting at the moment - why can't you hear it? Oh because your radio isn't set to pick up radio 1 at the moment...
also
'Broadcast directly to them' - no, most antennas will send radio waves in all directions - whether the person receives that broadcast depends on whether they're listening to that frequency, whether they are in range, weather conditions etc... Id say on the latter two points they probably should have received it if they were listening to that frequency. But whether the Russians should have been listening to that frequency (they probably should have) is a different matter to whether they actually were.
(my experience of comms has been ground based, I've talked to an aircraft on only a handful of occasions but I don't think you need to be an expert on aircraft communications to point out they need to be listening to that frequency)
Do you understand now? Releasing a recording doesn't change much, we already knew the Turkish plane transmitted, the US confirmed separately - now you've got a sound file too... it doesn't change anything not is it evidence that the Russians lied.
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Suspended
The other issue with the recording is that there is no proof that the recording was transmitted at the time of the incident. So all you can say with certainty is that the Turkish Government have released a recorded transmission. It could easily have been recorded pre or post incident.
Caporegime
Ah dowie continuing to operate on assumptions.
Whilst it is true the Russian pilots may not have heard the transmitted messages it could only be one of two reasons, radio failure - which the Russians haven't mentioned so we can logically follow didn't happen. Or they turned the channel off, for which the reasons have been explained already but generally it's something you never do.
Whilst it is true the Russian pilots may not have heard the transmitted messages it could only be one of two reasons, radio failure - which the Russians haven't mentioned so we can logically follow didn't happen. Or they turned the channel off, for which the reasons have been explained already but generally it's something you never do.
Caporegime
It was picked up by others at the time...
no I've just stated a fact - we don't know whether they received the communications
do you still believe the shooting down of that jet was justified and/or that it was posing some huge threat?
Soldato
Well that's pretty terrifying and awesome at the same time.