Overclockers UK Forums Click here for more details
Free Shipping for Loyal Forum Members - CLICK HERE

Go Back   Overclockers UK Forums > Life > Motors

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 29th Mar 2012, 12:55   #1
rossk26
Soldato
 
rossk26's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: North East of England
Posts: 5,340
Mondeo ST TDCI

2007 Ford Mondeo 2.2TDCi 155 ST

Wondering if anyone can give me some advice on this particular engine and model of car?

I know everyone on here loves the mondeo ST220, so was wondering what the thoughts are on the ST diesel version...

rossk26 is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2012, 13:04   #2
GinG
Soldato
 
GinG's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,915
First Question people my ask...do you do the miles to warrant the diesel over the fantastic V6 engine?

The car is a great looking car however I have always felt a little sad inside when I see the single tail pipe when following a Mondeo ST!
GinG is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2012, 13:14   #3
rossk26
Soldato
 
rossk26's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: North East of England
Posts: 5,340
Car isn't for me, it's for my brother. Currently has an Audi A3 on lease but is changing jobs and wants a sub 8k.

He covers 19,200 miles a year for work alone, so diesel is warranted on this occasion

rossk26 is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2012, 13:16   #4
i5aces
Hitman
 
Joined: Jan 2012
Location: Andover
Posts: 661
my mum has this car, dont know if thats a good thing or bad thing
i think its a cracking car, pulls great, great on fuel, its very comfy (the seats are lovely)
things i dont like and things to look out for
1) check the bumpers for cracks and correct fitting, quite a few have been bummped and they are very easy to crack also the sides of the bumpers are held in by a kind of pin thats in the car and a little hook moulded into the bumper, these are very easy to break.
2) the wheels corrode really easily, they can be fixed but most people just get them painted rather than the cut finnish they come with new (this ruins them imo)
3) the single tailpipe on the oil burner (the petrol looks so much better with twin exit)
4) they can go through brake pads quickly depending on how its driven
5) check th cd player, the 6 cd stack has a habbit of messing up and so wont load or eject discs
6) check all the bulbs on the instrumend display, if one goes its a PITA to replace

the car shares an engine with the x type jag, so parts are very easy to get and you can flick between the two. (my mum saved 75 by buying a new EGR from jag instead of ford)

i think overall its a very nice car and good examples dont cost the earth,

i7 3770k @ 4.5 / 7970 lcs / 16gb corsair vengance
samsung 830 256gb ssd / asus p8z77 pro / Thermaltake lv 10gt / custom water
Last edited by i5aces; 29th Mar 2012 at 13:19.
i5aces is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2012, 14:27   #5
rossk26
Soldato
 
rossk26's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: North East of England
Posts: 5,340
Thanks

How efficient is the 2.2 engine?

rossk26 is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2012, 14:32   #6
Ringiho
Wise Guy
 
Ringiho's Avatar
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Location: Basingstoke, Hants
Posts: 1,232
I've got one of these and did about 22k in it last year. It's a nice car to look at and be in but its like a Transit in the mornings! It comes with a lot of warnings about injectors etc.

I average about 45mpg most of the time, a motorway run brings over 50mpg easily.

Ringiho is online now   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2012, 14:38   #7
Janesy B
Capodecina
 
Janesy B's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,958
They sound atrocious when cold!
Janesy B is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2012, 14:44   #8
rossk26
Soldato
 
rossk26's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: North East of England
Posts: 5,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janesy B View Post
They sound atrocious when cold!
Don't most diesels?

rossk26 is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2012, 14:50   #9
Janesy B
Capodecina
 
Janesy B's Avatar
 
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,958
From the outside it sounds particularly bad, noticeably worse than others. The Transit comment is pretty spot on.
Janesy B is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2012, 14:53   #10
Howard
Capodecina
 
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: South East
Posts: 14,777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janesy B View Post
They sound atrocious when cold!
And when warm

Howard is online now   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2012, 14:58   #11
rossk26
Soldato
 
rossk26's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: North East of England
Posts: 5,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Janesy B View Post
From the outside it sounds particularly bad, noticeably worse than others. The Transit comment is pretty spot on.
The new German diesels are the only diesel engined cars I have ever experienced being slightly quiet (for a diesel).

So considering a diesel car is a must, the fact it's loud isn't really worth noting, as all diesels around this price will have a horrible noise!!!

rossk26 is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2012, 15:54   #12
ShadowMan
Wise Guy
 
ShadowMan's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,362
Had one for 18 months and did 49k miles in it.

Great cruiser and good on fuel. Servicing was ok and I stuck with main dealer all the time.

I did have trouble with the EGR but was sorted under warranty. Normally is around a 100 fix.

Dash bulb went in mine and was 60 in labour to replace a 69p bulb. I nearly coughed when I saw the receipt.

Has the usual problems with EGR, DMF and Injectors that Mondeo's are know for.

When buying check the fitment of the rear bumper. Poor design meant that it starts to sag. This can break the lugs that fit it fully and can require a new bumper. Ford did make foam inserts for the Zetec you could buy to fix this but I believe they stopped suppling them. Is it quite normal for there to be a 10mm gap between rear bumper and rear lights. If lugs are ok you can probably get it sorted.

All in all it was a good car for me. Treated its tyres well for a torquey engine and never had much of a problem with it. Fitted 4 adults in without a problems and the heated half leather was great in winter.

Sold my 2007 plate car in 2009 with 59k on it for 7700 so they dont seemed to have dropped massively since then.
ShadowMan is online now   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2012, 16:10   #13
Third Opinion
Soldato
 
Joined: Jun 2005
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 5,356
My stepfather had one and it was a money pit after the warranty expired. DMF, injectors, Mass air flow, countless front suspension arms and it wore tyres on those nice 18 inch rims like an F1 car.

On top of that there were intermittent engine faults like it dying for no reason, warning lights that would come on for no reason and noises from the rear that were never solved. The car at 6 years old was p/ex for little more than scrap value.

Can't you go petrol? I don't think Diesel is the Mondeo ST strong point.
Third Opinion is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2012, 16:18   #14
Muffin`
Caporegime
 
Joined: Apr 2004
Location: Bristol
Posts: 32,990
Quote:
Originally Posted by Third Opinion View Post
My stepfather had one and it was a money pit after the warranty expired. DMF, injectors, Mass air flow, countless front suspension arms and it wore tyres on those nice 18 inch rims like an F1 car.

On top of that there were intermittent engine faults like it dying for no reason, warning lights that would come on for no reason and noises from the rear that were never solved. The car at 6 years old was p/ex for little more than scrap value.

Can't you go petrol? I don't think Diesel is the Mondeo ST strong point.


'96 DC2, '05 GSF 650, C4 Cactus
Muffin` is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2012, 17:15   #15
Tute
Capodecina
 
Tute's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 21,492
If you don't want the ST220 i'd look at the 2.0 petrol instead. The diesel is decent for MPG but any savings will get eaten up with replacing injectors and the odd DMF as well.


5820K | X99E-ITX | 32GB DDR4 | RX 480 | 840 EVO M.2 | NCASE M1
Tute is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2012, 17:40   #16
rossk26
Soldato
 
rossk26's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: North East of England
Posts: 5,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tute View Post
If you don't want the ST220 i'd look at the 2.0 petrol instead. The diesel is decent for MPG but any savings will get eaten up with replacing injectors and the odd DMF as well.
Again, the car is not for me. But I would think at a rough guess of 25,000 miles per year the diesel is warranted...

rossk26 is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2012, 19:33   #17
blueboy2001
Mobster
 
blueboy2001's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 4,640
I've had my 2005 ST TDCi since it was 5 months old, although I sold it my friend who ran it for a couple of years while I had an Octavia vRS and then decided to buy it back from him as I preferred it to the Octavia.

Bad Points:
Injectors can go, but its not as common a problem as many would have you believe. The initial calibration on the 2.2 TDCi caused excessive wear on the injector tips and when Ford released a new calibration and cars were upgraded (which many were because the software update was also required to fix a software problem with the ESP system which affected lots of cars) it caused them to run like an old tractor. Lots of cars had new injectors under warranty - including mine at 35k, it's now on 80K and it's been fine ever since.

The signs of injector wear are a big puff of white or blue smoke on a cold start and rough running for the first 5-10 seconds. A small puff of smoke is normal, but if you can see it in the mirrors it's a sign of a problem. Worn injectors will not cause the car to break down though - you'll just get increasingly rough running from cold. A full set of replacement injectors will set you back 500-600 from a Delphi Diesel Specialist, and I wouldn't bother taking the car anywhere else if you suspect problems with the injectors or fuelling system. Common rail injectors can fail spontaneously - they have tiny electrically operated valves in them. You can change a single injector. If an injector fails the car will go into limp home mode.

Clutch and DMF - The clutch doesn't have any specific issues, but the Dual Mass Flywheel can fail. This will manifest itself as a metallic rattle at idle, particularly on start and switch off. Starting problems can be a sign of DMF problems as they drop metal filings into the starter motor. They don't usually fail catastrophically, but this is an expensive job - 600 or so for the full clutch and DMF kit and it's a 6-8 hour job to change as you have to drop the front subframe. Labouring the engine and lots of town running kills DMF's.

The aux belt pulleys and tensioners originally fitted to cars built before late 2006 can cause a resonance in the belt that makes a horrible flapping noise. This will disappear at the very slightest touch of the throttle. A modification kit is available, many will have had this under warranty, but its about 125 for the kit, plus fitting.

The points about the ST rear bumper are true. If the fixings are OK, the best fix is to gently jack up the corners of the bumper until it's level and square, then drill 6 holes and fit some self tapping screws with big heads and repair washers underneath behind the centre panel on the bumper. There is a bolt-on crossmember behind there so you're not drilling into the body or anything. I had a new bumper under warranty, but after a year that started to drop as well. I screwed mine on ages ago and it's been fine.

The diamond cut wheels corrode. Get them painted or powder coated if you want the finish to last.

They are a bit noisy from outside when it's very cold. This engine is 2 generations old now so it won't be as quiet as the latest engines, but it's no worse than a VAG PD engine when cold and it's noticeably smoother and quieter when warm.

The factory fit exhaust is no longer available, and the replacement Ford backbox is about 130 and doesn't have a chrome tailpipe so looks totally naff. I got a Powerflow dealer to build and fit a custom SS cat back system for 250. Check the weld between the backbox and the pipe as they always fail here, but they rot from the inside out so it can be difficult to see.

The back seats can be really noisy where the vinyl covering on the sides touches the plastic trim. Cover with self adhesive felt for a couple of quid off ebay to fix this.

With primarily motorway use you will see 50MPG, mixed use mid-40's, dropping to 40 if you have significant town use.

Decent 225/40/18 tyres can be expensive, but otherwise they are cheap cars to run. They don't need fancy oil and there's no cambelts to change. Other than some of the front suspension parts (which are robust), everything else is standard Mondeo stuff so it cheap and readily available.

On 25k a year you'll save about 1100 a year in fuel (35mpg for a 2.0 petrol vs 47mpg for the diesel).

I've been really happy with mine - the handling is great and whilst the V6 would be preferable when pushing on, it uses 50% more fuel and to be honest most of my time is on the motorway with the cruise control on.
blueboy2001 is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2012, 19:41   #18
andyp
PermaBanned
 
Joined: May 2005
Location: South Yorkshire
Posts: 1,647
As said above, if the ST220 is a no-go because of the fuel costs then advise your brother to check out the 2.0 litre petrol engine before jumping for an STD.

A well-specced petrol will be exactly what it says on the tin - a decently screwed together mile muncher with plenty of toys and comfort.

On a personal note, after owning an ST220 for the last 13 months I just couldn't ever consider going over to the diesel ST and that's reinforced by when I have a ride in my good friends STD, and he grudgingly agrees with me that it feels like the ST220's ugly sister. No Recaro seats, no fantastic engine that loves to be revved and has a great sound, his feels a little wallow-ier than mine which is probably partly down to the seats offering little lateral support as opposed to the ST220. The wedge of torque in 3rd and 4th gear is nice and if I'm caught in the wrong gear it'll happily stick to my bumper but purely as a driving machine, the ST220 is by far the better car. If you offset the cost of fuel against the potential usual diesel reliability issues, plus the fact the ST220 is much much rarer and seems destined for classic fast Ford territory and will hold much better resale value towards the latter end of its life, the ST220 seems to be the better car for long-term ownership.

Put it this way, there's very few STD's get looked after - looked after as in meticulous, slightly obsessive comprehensive servicing, preventative maintenance and generally being wrapped in cotton wool.

Every ST220 owner I know from the few who live near me to the obvious fanatics on the owners forums absolutely adore their cars and keep them in superb condition.

Really, really depends what your brother wants from a Ford. Disposable white goods or something that sparkles a little?
Last edited by andyp; 29th Mar 2012 at 19:44.
andyp is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2012, 23:17   #19
Luke
Soldato
 
Luke's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2005
Location: S. Yorkshire
Posts: 6,546
My brother has one and he claims he is only getting low 30's mpg. I'm not sure if he has a lead boot or he's failing on maths though.

Luke is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 29th Mar 2012, 23:20   #20
Tute
Capodecina
 
Tute's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 21,492
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossk26 View Post
Again, the car is not for me. But I would think at a rough guess of 25,000 miles per year the diesel is warranted...
I'd really not, the 2.0 petrol is going to get you the majority of the economy of the ST TDCI at motorway speeds, and yet you have the added bonus of not having a turbocharger, high pressure injectors, or a particularly flimsy flywheel going wrong.

That's before I even start on the added risk of the DPF as well, and from my own diesel experience you might find the EGR system throws up the odd fault too.


5820K | X99E-ITX | 32GB DDR4 | RX 480 | 840 EVO M.2 | NCASE M1
Tute is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 30th Mar 2012, 00:41   #21
widdyst
Wise Guy
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,283
Dont know how many times this guy has to say its not for him its for hiis bro and he warrants a diesel on his annual mileage.
Also because all of the above mentioned "catastrophic failures" diesels seem to be able to have does that automatically mean that every diesel car is going to have every single failure possible and almost certainly bankrupt you if you buy one ?

No me thinks not
widdyst is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 30th Mar 2012, 07:58   #22
Tute
Capodecina
 
Tute's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 21,492
He could be buying it for the pope and the advice would still stand.

I have first hand experience of running a diesel over 30K a year thankyou - this week it dropped a 600 bill on me when it went in for a routine service. 350 of that would not have happened on a petrol, as it was a fault with a diesel-only part.

All i'm trying to do is make sure he goes into this with his eyes open. If he is still determined to get a diesel then so be it, but at least he will know the pitfalls and potential problems.


5820K | X99E-ITX | 32GB DDR4 | RX 480 | 840 EVO M.2 | NCASE M1
Tute is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 30th Mar 2012, 08:10   #23
rossk26
Soldato
 
rossk26's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: North East of England
Posts: 5,340
I see where you are coming from that diesels will be more prone to faults and failures. And with having more expensive parts that can go bang than a petrol.

But I'm sure I could ask about a 2.0 petrol mondeo and be given plenty of horror stories too.

The amount of diesel cars out there now, you would think that some of them must have a life free of problem otherwise why would people continue to go about buying them? My dad has a 1.9 octavia diesel, which has covered 90k+ miles and has never had a mechanical problem in his lifetime. The only thing that has ever got wrong was a fuse (electrical problem) and this could have also gone wrong in a petrol.....

rossk26 is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 30th Mar 2012, 08:16   #24
Tute
Capodecina
 
Tute's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: Devon, UK
Posts: 21,492
Well that's the chance you take with any car at all. You might buy a Mondeo TDCI that runs for thousands of miles without fault. But you might also buy one that goes through injectors like it's going out of fashion.

At the end of the day it's your/your brother's decision. All people here are trying to do is make it clear that when you buy a more complex car, you *can* be buying into something that is more prone to throwing problems, which will eat into any fuel savings.

Don't take this as diesel-bashing, it's not. It's just about making sure you know what you're doing and what could or could not happen with any car.

This thread is really no different to the type of threads we sometimes get where someone wants to buy a 7 series for 3K. The principle is, that with any car you buy, if you're responsible for maintaining it you need to be clear about what that entails, otherwise 6 months down the line we get a thread titled "OMG I hate my car, can't afford it etc.".


5820K | X99E-ITX | 32GB DDR4 | RX 480 | 840 EVO M.2 | NCASE M1
Tute is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 30th Mar 2012, 08:48   #25
rossk26
Soldato
 
rossk26's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: North East of England
Posts: 5,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tute View Post
At the end of the day it's your/your brother's decision. All people here are trying to do is make it clear that when you buy a more complex car, you *can* be buying into something that is more prone to throwing problems, which will eat into any fuel savings.
I fully understand this. But I would personally think with such a high annual mileage the risks of diesel ownership would NOT outweigh the benefits of cheaper running costs.

Worst case scenario i suggest my brother buys a petrol mondy, and it goes bang!! Then he's got bills to pay, and his economy is far worse off.
Best case scenario he gets the diesel and no problem occur..

Isn't every car a risk game, obviously the diesel being more of a risk to an N/A petrol car of equivalent age and spec...

The turbo in my Focus ST could go bang at any time, and it's safe to say I certainly don't have the spare cash at the moment to have that fixed. So should I buy a Civic Type R in case of this occurrence???

rossk26 is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 30th Mar 2012, 08:51   #26
[TW]Fox
Man of Honour
 
[TW]Fox's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 149,881
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossk26 View Post
But I'm sure I could ask about a 2.0 petrol mondeo and be given plenty of horror stories too.
The point is though that the horror stories people tell you are related to components NOT fitted to the petrol. So sure, you could buy a petrol and the rear subframe goes or the doors leak water or the aircon packs in but then all that could happen on the diesel, too. But you won't need a turbo or injectors or a DMF on the petrol Mondeo, which is kinda the point everyone is making.

It's additional complexity that causes the issue.

That said I'm not sure that with near 20k its right to avoid diesel - perhaps just buy the right diesel, of which I am not sure the Mondeo is. It has more than its fair share of issues.

Quote:
The turbo in my Focus ST could go bang at any time, and it's safe to say I certainly don't have the spare cash at the moment to have that fixed. So should I buy a Civic Type R in case of this occurrence???
Whether its smart to buy something like a Focus ST if you can't afford to fix it is a completely different matter for a completely different thread.

Please read the FAQ regarding signature sizes.
[TW]Fox is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 30th Mar 2012, 08:55   #27
rossk26
Soldato
 
rossk26's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: North East of England
Posts: 5,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by [TW]Fox View Post
That said I'm not sure that with near 20k its right to avoid diesel - perhaps just buy the right diesel, of which I am not sure the Mondeo is. It has more than its fair share of issues.
What would be the right diesel?

I just assumed with the Mondeo getting rave reviews, that a diesel mondeo would be the car of choice...

rossk26 is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 30th Mar 2012, 08:57   #28
rossk26
Soldato
 
rossk26's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: North East of England
Posts: 5,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by [TW]Fox View Post
Whether its smart to buy something like a Focus ST if you can't afford to fix it is a completely different matter for a completely different thread.
Plenty of wood touching moments happen!!


rossk26 is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 30th Mar 2012, 08:59   #29
[TW]Fox
Man of Honour
 
[TW]Fox's Avatar
 
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 149,881
Quote:
Originally Posted by rossk26 View Post
What would be the right diesel?

I just assumed with the Mondeo getting rave reviews, that a diesel mondeo would be the car of choice...
I'm thinking that something like the engine I hate the most in the entire world might be a good choice - the VAG 1.9 TDI. It's noisy, its slow, it shakes the cabin like a small earthquake but it seems to be one of the most reliable diesel engines around.

The Mondeo is an excellent car and gets many recommendations but it took them years to actually get the diesel engine right reliability wise.

Please read the FAQ regarding signature sizes.
[TW]Fox is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Old 30th Mar 2012, 09:17   #30
rossk26
Soldato
 
rossk26's Avatar
 
Joined: Nov 2009
Location: North East of England
Posts: 5,340
Thanks Fox

A more reliable derv engine is a good shout. I wasn't aware of the reliability of Ford diesels compared to the PD engines...

Is there a 130 pd engine? Is that the "quickest". He seems to be wanting to keep, (I say this with holding a lot of laughter) the "speed" of his A3 diesel...

rossk26 is offline   View trust for Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 18:08.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Overclockers UK (Ocuk Ltd)