£250-£300 budget 2.1 Speakers

[Marsman]

Oh dear, more confusion.

There's too much of one person saying 'do this', and then another person says 'do that'.

Anyway, all the gear is correct. Wharfedale 9.1, SW150 and Cambridge Audio Topaz AM1.

It's the method of connection where the confusion lies. Get all the cables you've mentioned and you can use either.

 

[hornetstinger]

-RCA from amps rec out to subs line level input

Nope. Record out is fixed. If you're sending left & right speaker level output from amp to sub, you don't need to also send low level.

 

[se_vietboi]

Nope. Record out is fixed. If you're sending left & right speaker level output from amp to sub, you don't need to also send low level.

But there's only enough connections to send left and right speaker output from amp to speakers. Or am I missing something?

 

[hornetstinger]

Then buy a subwoofer with high level inputs & outputs, ideally with a high pass filter so the speakers reproduce 80hz and above.

speaker level
amp---->subwoofer---->speakers

I've done something similar, however it's done on low level (I have a bass management device between pre and power) but in principle it's the same.

 

[dacads]

So what you guys are saying is that as the amp has no sub/pre out , the sub will have to be connected to the amp speaker outputs in parallel with wires from speakers.

In that case OK one set of RCA cables will do

 

[hornetstinger]

either run

Speaker cable from amp to speakers AND subwooofer
or
Speaker cable from amp to speakers THEN onto speakers.

 

[se_vietboi]

So what you guys are saying is that as the amp has no sub/pre out , the sub will have to be connected to the amp speaker outputs in parallel with wires from speakers.

In that case OK one set of RCA cables will do

Like this?

http://www.earthquakesound.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/granite-52/Granite_XJ300FR_wiring_03.png

 

[Marsman]

But there's only enough connections to send left and right speaker output from amp to speakers. Or am I missing something?

Basically, you have 2 cables coming from each of the binding post outputs.

Rather than 2 pairs, 1 to each to speaker, there are 4 pairs. 1 to each speaker and to the subwoofer.

The reason why you can connect the subwoofer to the speaker output as well as the speakers, is because the subwoofer is not being amplified by the AM1, like the speakers are. The subwoofer has it's own amplfier, it just uses the speaker inputs from the amp to listen to the signal.

 

[Marsman]

Like this?

http://www.earthquakesound.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/granite-52/Granite_XJ300FR_wiring_03.png

That's wrong. That suggests a passive amplifier, which is powered by the stereo amp.

Here's the manual for the Diamond series of speakers including the SW150.

link

Page 11 is what you need to look at, where it describes speaker level connection.

 

[se_vietboi]

Basically, you have 2 cables coming from each of the binding post outputs.

Rather than 2 pairs, 1 to each to speaker, there are 4 pairs. 1 to each speaker and to the subwoofer.

The reason why you can connect the subwoofer to the speaker output as well as the speakers, is because the subwoofer is not being amplified by the AM1, like the speakers are. The subwoofer has it's own amplfier, it just uses the speaker inputs from the amp to listen to the signal.

Ooh I see.. that makes things so much clearer. I thought it was a passive sub the whole time. Method A on page 11 with the front speakers. Thanks!

 

[Marsman]

Don't know why I didn't search for the manual sooner. Probably could have saved some time.

 

[dacads]

Cool so you are good to go now

either run

Speaker cable from amp to speakers AND subwooofer
or
Speaker cable from amp to speakers THEN onto speakers.

For the second option, you mean onto speakers then subwoofer?

As described in the manual, option B for speaker level connections

 

[hornetstinger]

Nope-if your subwoofer has high level inputs and high level outputs, and has a high pass filter, then you can utililise that so low bass is filtered from the speakers and re-directed to the subwoofer.

Not as good as full on active crossover before the amplifier but it will help with reducing distortion to the speakers.

I filter out bass between pre and power, so my amplifiers receive a signal higher than the speakers can reproduce. No point trying to get the speakers, or the amplifier amplfying those signals the speakers can't output to a +/- to what the subwoofer can.

 

[se_vietboi]

I've just been to richer sounds. They told me the AM1 isn't very powerful (20x2) and the 9.1s are also 20x2 and that you should never max out the wattage.

So what does this mean? I can't turn it up full volume? And if I connect the sub, it's not gonna blow up the amp is it? Maybe she was just trying to upsell to me lol.

Anyways I went ahead and bought it. Lemme know whether it's ok to proceed with the SW150 + 9.1s. Thanks in advance!

 

[hornetstinger]

20W amplifiers means you just have to be careful what dB you're listening to, also would help if you bought efficient speakers because for a given 1W amplifier watt, more efficient speakers will be louder. At 86dB those are fairly low.

20W will be fine for monitor use ie computer system like 1M away. And fine for background levels. But not banging out high spl.

It's best to get an amplifier with more power than you need, rather than a under powered one. That's why I've gone for 200W x 7.

No you can't turn it to full volume. Connecting the sub to the speaker terminals does not rob the amp of power.

But if your sub has speaker in/out then I would wire it up like this

amplifier speaker output (stereo)
Into subwoofer speaker level inputs (stereo)
Subwoofer speaker level output (stereo) into stereo speakers.

Then adjust volume on the sub to blend it in. If your sub has high pass it's most likely fixed at 80hz.

 

[se_vietboi]

Ah damn..maybe I should return for the AM5.

 

[hornetstinger]

tbh I'd recommend 50W RMS to be safe.

5W difference between AM1 and AM5 is nothing. Generally to be worthwhile you have to double the power.

 

[Marsman]

Admittedly 20W is quite low, but it is a low budget amp. Ideally 40-50W would be much better as there would be more headroom, but you'd be looking at spending another £70. More efficient speakers would also help, but that would mean you wouldn't be saving on the 9.1 + SW150 bundle, so more money again. Soon the budget would be shot to pieces.

As above, it will work fine, but you can't just whack it up to full volume. Maybe around 80% would be safe. Too close to maximum and you will get distortion and clipping, which would damage the speakers in time.

Another option would to be get an amp with more power, but settle on just stereo speakers for now. Can always add a subwoofer at a later date if more lower end is required.

 

[hornetstinger]

Another option would to be use bass management, some stereo amplifiers have this feature. Bass frequencies takes the most demand on a amplifiers, so if you can divert those prior to the amplifier it frees up power, gives more headroom and dynamic range.

With a regular stereo integrated amplifier the speakers are sent full range signal, even if your speakers aren't capable of reproducing those frequencies.

 

[jpaul]

Was going to suggest diverting the sub money into a wireless dac to allow you to stream and avoid tablet/pc dacs, and their 3.5mm audio out.
I am discussing Chromecast audio in another thread that would also be a good solution, if it works from IOS (I forget which os you have)

(I was surprised by propsals to drive active sub by connecting to regular speaker outputs, as opposed to inbuilt cross-over in Amp w/dedicated RCA sub outputs ... but have not bought an amp for many years, so maybe these are much more expensive)