AMD Faces Lawsuit Over Bulldozer Cores

[mmj_uk]

It is misleading in a way since AMD's 8 core parts only perform on par with Intel's 4 core parts (and that's best case), if the average Joe goes into PC World and is presented with a 4 core PC or an 8 core PC it's not a difficult decision on paper.

If Intel were to split their integer units down the middle they could claim 4690 to be an 8 core part but it'd be fairly disingenuous when overall performance remained the same and the CPU just became much more reliant on the way games are threaded.

I doubt they have done anything wrong legally but I do think it's misleading pointing to core count and megahertz when the performance is not there, CPU's need to be advertised a bit more like GPU's using performance metrics (GFlops etc).

 

[philo-sofa]

Whilst this sounds like a lot of BS for enthusiasts, there is a big difference between putting something on the box and putting something in the detailed specs. The idea being that a cosnumer could be misled by a box saying "Eiiiight CORRRRES!"; IMHO we should be more open to the idea investigation given we know that isn't the whole story. However I suspect the court will agree this falls within the bounds of acceptable marketing hyperbole.

tl;dr: he has a case, but it's no worse than DnB outfits calling their offerings music

 

[mmj_uk]

If it's looked into the one area they might have a case is if you all remember when Bulldozer first came out Windows 7 wasn't optimised for it and AMD needed Windows 8 to perform optimally, this was due to the Windows 7 scheduler not prioritising 1 thread per module when there were less than 4 threads in use and running 2 threads per module was widely reported to be slower than running 2 threads on 2 modules due to the resource sharing.

IMO a true 8 core processor should run equally however the threads are allocated. I remember WoW having a similar issue with Intel CPU's years ago where it would use Hyperthreaded cores before physical cores.

 

[GoogalyMoogaly]

I've asked in other threads but don't think it's been answered...
On Intel CPUs does the performance of 1 core get affected if you load the other cores? Does using HyperThreading affect the performance of the core it's running on affectign the other thread running on that core?
What about non-HT CPUs like the i5s? Does loading all the cores affect any of the cores meaning they don't run as well as if they were running by themselves?

 

[humbug]

I've asked in other threads but don't think it's been answered...
On Intel CPUs does the performance of 1 core get affected if you load the other cores? Does using HyperThreading affect the performance of the core it's running on affectign the other thread running on that core?
What about non-HT CPUs like the i5s? Does loading all the cores affect any of the cores meaning they don't run as well as if they were running by themselves?

Yes, The i5, if you get 100% performance with one core you don't get 400% performance with 4, its more like 350% or perhaps a little more.

Hyper Threading adds about 30% across all cores.

 

[Dave2150]

If it's looked into the one area they might have a case is if you all remember when Bulldozer first came out Windows 7 wasn't optimised for it and AMD needed Windows 8 to perform optimally, this was due to the Windows 7 scheduler not prioritising 1 thread per module when there were less than 4 threads in use and running 2 threads per module was widely reported to be slower than running 2 threads on 2 modules due to the resource sharing.

IMO a true 8 core processor should run equally however the threads are allocated. I remember WoW having a similar issue with Intel CPU's years ago where it would use Hyperthreaded cores before physical cores.

Even when 'support' was added in Windows 7, it still faired miserably compared to the competition.

Lets hope Zen is a solid no stopgaps CPU.

 

[mmj_uk]

On Intel CPUs does the performance of 1 core get affected if you load the other cores?

Only very marginally due to the shared L3 cache (excluding functions like Turbo that is) but otherwise the cores are fully independent.

Does using HyperThreading affect the performance of the core it's running on affectign the other thread running on that core?

AFAIK Hyperthreading just makes use of any spare cycles which are not being utilised by the first thread on the core, rather than the core being idle in those cycles.

What about non-HT CPUs like the i5s? Does loading all the cores affect any of the cores meaning they don't run as well as if they were running by themselves?

Answered that above, L3 cache is shared so there is bound to be some kind of penalty for using more than one core but it's insignificant really.

There is far more than just the L3 cache being shared in AMD FX though.

 

[DragonQ]

AFAIK Hyperthreading just makes use of any spare cycles which are not being utilised by the first thread on the core.

No, it uses parts of the processing pipeline that aren't being used by the first thread. Wikipedia explains it well.

 

[AdamL93]

interesting

 

[h4rm0ny]

It is misleading in a way since AMD's 8 core parts only perform on par with Intel's 4 core parts (and that's best case), if the average Joe goes into PC World and is presented with a 4 core PC or an 8 core PC it's not a difficult decision on paper.

If Intel were to split their integer units down the middle they could claim 4690 to be an 8 core part but it'd be fairly disingenuous when overall performance remained the same and the CPU just became much more reliant on the way games are threaded.

I doubt they have done anything wrong legally but I do think it's misleading pointing to core count and megahertz when the performance is not there, CPU's need to be advertised a bit more like GPU's using performance metrics (GFlops etc).

What is this nonsense? You want AMD to advertise a chip as running at lower "megahertz" than it actually does because it's per-clock performance isn't as high as Intels? No? So maybe they're allowed to state what the actual clock speed is so long as they accompany it by a big notice saying "Gigahertz isn't the sole guide to performance"? Why should they? And what are you babbling about with "if Intel were to split their Integer units down the middle"? Do you mean floating point? And what do you mean "split down the middle" - do you mean share them between cores? You're drivelling nonsense.

The fault is that of people who insist on trying to comprehend chip performance as a simple number where higher is better. What can you do with such people? What they're looking for doesn't exist and a chip manufacturers can't fix that no matter how many disclaimers they put on their product. There is no case here and your post is gibberish.

 

[nashathedog]

AMD responds to Bulldozer lawsuit, holds firm marketing was accurate

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/48369...suit-holds-firm-marketing-accurate/index.html

 

[humbug]

AMD responds to Bulldozer lawsuit, holds firm marketing was accurate

http://www.tweaktown.com/news/48369...suit-holds-firm-marketing-accurate/index.html

Good for AMD, stand your ground on this one, there trying it on.

 

[AthlonXP1800]

AMD Settles FX Bulldozer False Advertising Lawsuit for Roughly $35 a Chip

https://www.tomshardware.com/news/a...ion-lawsuit-eight-cores-settlement,40256.html

https://regmedia.co.uk/2019/08/27/amd-eight-core-settlement.pdf

4 years passed and Tony Dickey had won class action lawsuit against AMD and the guilty AMD had reached agreement to settlement $12.1 million payout to US consumers who bought Bulldozer FX 8 core CPUs will receive about $35 for each chip.

Shame UK consumers wont qualify to receive $35 payout.

 

[Chrisc]

Even if it was the UK, i really couldnt be bothered to dig out the receipt and go through the claims process. For all its 'Apparent' faults, my 8120 served me well until the release of Ryzen.

 

[opethdisciple]

Perhaps there could be a repeat of this considering the boost speeds advertised for the 3000 series are not achievable?

 

[Saltcreek]

Hardware Unboxed already showed that that zen2 is being limited by the bios and not the chips. Well, their test indicates that is the probable problem and I would be very surprised if a law suit is file for zen2 because there are people who meet or exceed the boost.

 

[Jay85]

People will sue for anything these days, what a sick world we live in.

 

[4K8KW10]

People will sue for anything these days, what a sick world we live in.

Why? They obviously don't sell you what they claim. Their products' descriptions are not fair.

 

[jigger]

People will sue for anything these days, what a sick world we live in.

Yeah, had a lady drive into my car park and rip the sill out of her car on a low wall. About a month later I got a letter from a micky mouse solicitor saying she would be pursuing me.

 

[jigger]

Why? They obviously don't sell you what they claim. Their products' descriptions are not fair.

They sold an 8 core CPU with 4 FP units. You could argue that is actually a 12 core CPU.