AMD Zen 5 rumours

Grim5 · 27 Apr 2021 at 20:10

Turns out, Intel isn't the only one silly enough to do Big.Little

AMD has started working on its Zen 5 architecture and apparently early designs feature a Big.Little architecture like Intel is moving to

https://wccftech.com/amd-zen-5-desk...feature-hybrid-core-architecture-3nm-process/

Cooler running · 27 Apr 2021 at 20:17

Grim5 said:
Turns out, Intel isn't the only one silly enough to do Big.Little

AMD has started working on its Zen 5 architecture and apparently early designs feature a Big.Little architecture like Intel is moving to

https://wccftech.com/amd-zen-5-desk...feature-hybrid-core-architecture-3nm-process/

Wouldn't be surprised, for the most part current Gen CPU's are sort of like this by accident, given that not all cores preform equally. Binning already segregates CPU's and software already prioritizes use of fast and slow cores for appropriate purposes.

Arm proved it works, so there really isn't a good reason for it to not exist on desktop. It will mean however that CPU's that preform well at multiple virtualization are going to become increasingly associated with server and workstation roles over Desktop going forward.

Not that any rumours which are over a year out really worth commenting on though.

andy_mk3 · 27 Apr 2021 at 20:18

Grim5 said:
silly enough to do Big.Little

This is rumoured for AMD's APU's which is where this design would be a perfect fit.

Rroff · 27 Apr 2021 at 20:20

Cooler running said:
Wouldn't be surprised, for the most part current Gen CPU's are sort of like this by accident, given that not all cores preform equally. Binning already segregates CPU's and software already prioritizes use of fast and slow cores for appropriate purposes.

Arm proved it works, so there really isn't a good reason for it to not exist on desktop. It will mean however that CPU's that preform well at multiple virtualization are going to become increasingly associated with server and workstation roles over Desktop going forward.

Not that any rumours which are over a year out really worth commenting on though.

Problem is the OS scheduler - the Windows one really doesn't handle this well and doesn't look like MS are on top of optimising it :s

kitfit1 · 27 Apr 2021 at 20:34

Rroff said:
Problem is the OS scheduler - the Windows one really doesn't handle this well and doesn't look like MS are on top of optimising it :s

They never will be until they actually have a working cpu to actually optimise. Even then, MS being MS, they have to actually to give a stuff before even bothering.

Cooler running · 27 Apr 2021 at 20:38

Rroff said:
Problem is the OS scheduler - the Windows one really doesn't handle this well and doesn't look like MS are on top of optimising it :s

I'd be surprised if you actually have any real evidence that the Windows scheduler would be a problem. Can you provide a source for this?

Grim5 · 27 Apr 2021 at 20:41

Rroff said:
Problem is the OS scheduler - the Windows one really doesn't handle this well and doesn't look like MS are on top of optimising it :s

Intel is using a hardware scheduler maybe amd will do the same.

Rroff · 27 Apr 2021 at 20:42

Cooler running said:
I'd be surprised if you actually have any real evidence that the Windows scheduler would be a problem. Can you provide a source for this?

Not like it is an unknown issue - it has been an ongoing problem for years with Windows and multi-core CPUs especially if not all cores are equal - hence some of the early Ryzen issues, etc. (also took a long time to sort some of the HT/SMT issues related to that).

Grim5 said:
Intel is using a hardware scheduler maybe amd will do the same.

Not sure it is as simple a solution as that given many of the legacy issues.

Grim5 · 27 Apr 2021 at 21:49

Rroff said:
Not sure it is as simple a solution as that given many of the legacy issues.

Ian touches on this in his new video where he says Intel needs to delay Alder Lake till 2022

random_matt · 27 Apr 2021 at 21:56

How would even overclocking work on big/little.

Grim5 · 27 Apr 2021 at 22:18

random_matt said:
How would even overclocking work on big/little.

Per core overclocking like AMD already does

Minstadave · 27 Apr 2021 at 22:48

random_matt said:
How would even overclocking work on big/little.

Overclocking is a dying art in an era of complex boost algorithms and configurable TDPs. No one is leaving much performance untapped these days.

Grim5 · 27 Apr 2021 at 22:56

Minstadave said:
Overclocking is a dying art in an era of complex boost algorithms and configurable TDPs. No one is leaving much performance untapped these days.

It's sad but I'm starting to see it that way too.

I think for my next PC, I will use a small case and just stick a air cooler on the CPU, couple case fans and call it a day.

That's if I continue with desktop that is, I have a feeling my next computer will be a laptop.

Journey · 27 Apr 2021 at 23:00

You've probably got 5-10 years left of custom PC building left for consumer machines, after that it's probably all going to be SoC with little to nothing other than plugging in a GPU, even the data storage can move off to USB/TB as it gets faster. Hope I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

clv101 · 27 Apr 2021 at 23:19

Minstadave said:
Overclocking is a dying art in an era of complex boost algorithms and configurable TDPs. No one is leaving much performance untapped these days.

Absolutely this. The days for 50%+ performance for free are far behind us.

Donnie Fisher · 28 Apr 2021 at 08:16

Whilst the ability to overclock a CPU is a nice benefit of extra performance, I've never understood why people have an expectation that they should be able to achieve significant overclocks, and then whine about it when they cant for a particular product Especially now, as mentioned above, where CPU's have much more complex boosting which the manufacturers are pushing to the upper limit themselves.

It's almost like people are saying "how dare the cpu company release a product that realises its full potential and maximises its performance".

(Yes, I know that the bounds can be pushed by liquid nitrogen cooling etc etc, but I'm talking about general average joe)

Armageus · 28 Apr 2021 at 08:46

Grim5 said:
Turns out, Intel isn't the only one silly enough to do Big.Little

It's nothing to do with being "silly enough", but has everything to do with power consumption for Laptops/Tablets and and USFF PCs - despite improvements to performance/watt in Ryzen, there is only so much potential to improve.

Apple have showed big gains in this area by switching to the M1 Processor, and in order to stay competitive especially in the laptop market, AMD will have to follow.
With increased focus on carbon footprint etc, then reducing power consumption is going to be an even bigger push going forward

Dontrocktheboat · 28 Apr 2021 at 08:46

Grim5 said:
It's sad but I'm starting to see it that way too.

I think for my next PC, I will use a small case and just stick a air cooler on the CPU, couple case fans and call it a day.

That's if I continue with desktop that is, I have a feeling my next computer will be a laptop.

.
Might as well get a Mac then.

Grim5 · 28 Apr 2021 at 08:51

Dontrocktheboat said:
.
Might as well get a Mac then.

or a iPad pro since Apple is putting desktop Mac CPU's in it's iPads now.

Give the iPad access to Mac OS and it will be an incredible portable computer - its not funny at all, its awesome.

I could see a future where all my computers have been replaced with iPads

KompuKare · 28 Apr 2021 at 10:08

clv101 said:
Absolutely this. The days for 50%+ performance for free are far behind us.

Yes, nowadays it's more like the potential to overclock maybe 5% extra if you pay at least 50% more for the right CPU, mobo etc.
Now it's mostly pay-to-win.
No more taking a £35 mobo and an Intel Pentium E5400 and actually getting 50%+ extra performance for free. Or some of the Conroe Celerons where with a cheap board you could go from 1.6GHz to 3.2GHz or more.