Brexit thread - what happens next

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Caporegime
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Ooh, this has made my morning:

Nigel Farage has reacted with fury after Vote Leave said it would exclude him from a cross-party committee which will negotiate Britain’s exit from the European Union.

The UK Independence Party leader said that he would use his position as head of the Ukip group in the European Parliament – the biggest group of British MEPs – to ensure he had a say over the terms of British breakaway from the EU.

Senior Vote Leave sources on Friday made clear that Mr Farage would not be invited to join the committee negotiating the Brexit.

One told The Telegraph: “Nigel Farage’s involvement has come to an end.”

Mr Farage responded furiously. He said: “I just don’t understand these people – they will never give me credit for anything.

"I have tried for nearly a year to work with these people and fight on a common agenda and they don’t want to know.”

(Source).

Wow. He actually said 'these people.' I thought that was code for 'immigrants', but apparently it means 'anyone Nigel Farage personally despises.' Hilarious to see him discarded as yesterday's man just when Britain has got what he wanted all these years!
 
Soldato
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I have a stupid question

Why does the EU force movement of people as a mandatory inclusion if you want to trade with them? Why the fixation on movement? I can understand if you're a part of the EU but why if you're not part of the EU or are a part of the EEA.

America isn't forced to allow EU citizen to freely move to the US yet they trade with the EU single market, as well as many other countries that have trade agreements with the single market.

Seems like a racket scheme for the rest of Europe spearheaded by the Germans and French.

It keeps the wages down low and lets the Corporations bully their workforces with the threat of Poles, Romanians etc, coming to do their jobs for half the wage/benefits.
 
Soldato
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petition.png
 
Soldato
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I stuck my head out of a front window this morning, and it looked, smelled and sounded like another normal day. My shares dropped a bit on Friday, but no more than on a number of other volatile days since I bought them. Mortgage payment's still fixed until 2019, and my work brought in more wonga this month than last month despite all the 'uncertainty'. Bought four pints of milk in my local Sainsburys for a quid earlier, same price as before D-day.

On here, as in real life, a pack of people are whining about the current affairs they're unhappy with. The BBC acts as though the country's freefalling in to the pits of hell, whilst amusingly trying to pass themselves off as impartial. Unimaginative souls cry out 'what now?' instead of just getting on with their lives and travails. What now I hear you ask? Stop banging on about it perhaps, and get on with whatever you did with your lives before this drama.

What do you make of this weather we're having, sticky out there isn't it? It wants to rain tonight, but it can't. Oh well it is trying though, a bit like when you keep trying to cough up something but it won't dislodge.

It is not what is happening out of your window NOW but what may be happening in two years time.
WTO regs mean all UK goods have added tariffs making them more difficult to sell.
Norway style means we pay the EU, have to allow free movement etc but have no say.
Chinese Foreign Secretary said it will take ten years for a trade deal.
That is ten years of uncertainty which markets hate and which will impact on our credit rating making it more expensive to borrow which means more expensive to service. Less money for other things.
 
Soldato
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Ooh, this has made my morning:



(Source).

Wow. He actually said 'these people.' I thought that was code for 'immigrants', but apparently it means 'anyone Nigel Farage personally despises.' Hilarious to see him discarded as yesterday's man just when Britain has got what he wanted all these years!

He's fulfilled his role as agent provocateur / rabble rouser / pantomime villain / caricature puppet / saviour of the known universe [delete as applicable] and so now they will discard him. It's just how these things work.
 

v0n

v0n

Soldato
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It keeps the wages down low and lets the Corporations bully their workforces with the threat of Poles, Romanians etc, coming to do their jobs for half the wage/benefits.

Please stop, can we have one freaking grown up discussion on the subject without internet David Ickes barfing out their home grown conspiracy theories all over the pages.
 
Associate
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I voted leave but I've not believed for a second that we'll actually leave the EU.

They tried to call our bluff with the referendum and it backfired, now they will have to find another way.

You do not have a say in a dictatorship.
 
Soldato
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A well thought out post from the comments section on the Guardian. Interesting read I thought.

"If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legistlation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-maneouvered and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign."

This was posted as a reply to the latest post on Boris's Facebook page and was quite quickly removed. Other inflammatory replies were left but this one removed. Might be something in it.
 
Soldato
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Or are they going to kick it into the long grass and wait for poorer economic conditions in two years time then say well do you really want to go. Or maybe not even bother as it is not legally binding just have a vote in Parliament and go with that.
 
Associate
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Or are they going to kick it into the long grass and wait for poorer economic conditions in two years time then say well do you really want to go. Or maybe not even bother as it is not legally binding just have a vote in Parliament and go with that.

Something like that, they'll find a way.

I wouldn't be surprised if we end up having referendum after referendum until we get it right. I put nothing past this government, it's not like the public can do anything about it, yeah fine riot in your thousands, it won't change a bloody thing.
 
Soldato
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By the way genuine question, been mulling in my head for days the exact core issues are (not just screen words) and what needs to be done to fix them.

As Teesside has been mentioned and as i'm from Cleveland in Teesside I can tell you that the reasoning for voting to leave has come from successive government neglect for the entire region. The steel industry collapsed because the government allowed poor quality, cheap Chinese steel to flood the market and the people of Teesside bore the bront of it. Unlike the current Port Talbot closure when the government at least tried to broker deals etc, they stood and did nothing when Lackenby was mothballed.

The northeast feels forgotten, gets nothing and has nothing so a leave vote is something new without the fear of disaster, because thousands of teessiders have virtually nothing to lose if the entire country fails.
 
Caporegime
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I think you guys saying we won't really leave are somewhat clutching at straws.

Any party deciding to ignore the referendum result is committing suicide, surely.

The LibDems were utterly destroyed for failing to deliver their promises....
 
Associate
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This was posted as a reply to the latest post on Boris's Facebook page and was quite quickly removed. Other inflammatory replies were left but this one removed. Might be something in it.

When I read it, it instantly resonated with me, as I too thought their was no desire or Victory fist pumps from Boris and Gove. I initially thought it was out of respect for Cameron, but then after mauling on it, I wondered if Boris and co were never expecting to win. I voted leave for reasons that were not related to the majority, but now it is seeming more and more like a pointless exercise in division!
 
Caporegime
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Soldato
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Unsure how many of these stories are true, but if even half of them are, I'm appalled, and scared, and ashamed... https://www.facebook.com/sarah.leblanc.718/media_set?set=a.10101369198638985&type=3&pnref=story

Well it shouldn't be a surprise given how the referendum was conducted and the general sentiment that has been simmering closer and closer to the boil for some time now. As I said earlier, Pandora's Box is open.

People need to be reminded that hate speech is crime in this country. Or at least for now, perhaps with the lurch to the right we seem to be taking these laws will be repealed once we leave the EU. Dark times ahead.
 
Associate
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I think you guys saying we won't really leave are somewhat clutching at straws.

Any party deciding to ignore the referendum result is committing suicide, surely.

The LibDems were utterly destroyed for failing to deliver their promises....

Yes it may be committing suicide but for how long? Certainly not permanently, the two main parties aren't going anywhere. One party or another is going to take the hit, you think they would risk the EU project over a few million voting in a referendum? No way.
 
Caporegime
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Yes it may be committing suicide but for how long? Certainly not permanently, the two main parties aren't going anywhere. One party or another is going to take the hit, you think they would risk the EU project over a few million voting in a referendum? No way.

Indeed, and you have to remember that realistically it was pretty much a 50/50 split.

Whatever any party does is going to **** off half the population so...
 
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