Council Tax

Soldato
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http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/the-poll-tax-courts-jail-civil-debtors-unlawfully-1569210.html

Talk about pulling something out of your ****. You've edited a 1995 report on the "poll" tax to try and make it look current.

Disgusting behaviour to try and backup your position. You should be ashamed.

Wow - what a joker!!

I'm in 2 minds about this really - while I agree people should pay their CT, enforcing it with prison really contradicts the whole "prison is for rehabilitation/public protection, not punishment" argument which is constantly thrown about...

I also think that preventing someone from paying monthly if they're late with a couple of payments is a really stupid idea. So you've got someone struggling to pay £130/month, and they're suddenly expected to magic up £1,400 out of somewhere?!
 
Permabanned
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The part right at the beginning where he says it is a petition about his council tax bill.
I think it's pretty obvious this isn't about him personally but a cause he is interested in.

specifically

"This isn't about people refusing to pay their Council Tax. It is about people not being able to afford to pay the Council Tax. And the fact that, it you CAN'T pay and have no means to pay, the Council can still apply for your committal to prison."


Oh and let me know when a banker gets jailed for fraud.
 
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Wow - what a joker!!

I'm in 2 minds about this really - while I agree people should pay their CT, enforcing it with prison really contradicts the whole "prison is for rehabilitation/public protection, not punishment" argument which is constantly thrown about...

I also think that preventing someone from paying monthly if they're late with a couple of payments is a really stupid idea. So you've got someone struggling to pay £130/month, and they're suddenly expected to magic up £1,400 out of somewhere?!

Expecting those in local, or national government to be sensible..is well, retarded. Those that aim for such 'positions' are rarely those that have ever known what struggle means.
 
Caporegime
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Council tax is disgraceful, putting elderly people out of their family homes because of a non means-tested tax that non-working people can't afford to pay.
 
Soldato
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Prison of course costs more than the loss of income to the council but the OP fails to appreciate its there as a last resort. There's probably 20 million+ council tax payers so the 1200 odd that have been punished by ~30 day sentences is a pretty low figure and I'd hazard a guess the OP couldn't find a single example of someone who truthfully couldn't actually pay if they gave up their xbox, ps4, sky, cigs, booze, takeaways.

I'd prefer punishment more along the lines of performing unpaid council work (gardening, picking up litter etc.) at the equivalent of the minimum wage for the non payers age band till the amount owed is paid back as that way there's no huge prison costs for the law abiding majority and as the non payer couldn't afford to pay the odds are they were doing sweet FA all day anyway so would benefit from the fresh air :D

Actually, the ones doing sweet fa are getting their council tax paid for them ;) it's the low income workers who are most likely to be unable to pay, you know, the ones usually doing long unsociable hours or working 2 jobs to make ends meet. When do you propose they do this gardening, at 4am after work? It also doesn't help that they have such stupid payment options, e.g. can only split it over 10 months not 12, and can't choose the payment date so it comes out after payday...

I know personally, council tax is my 2nd biggest bill after mortgage, so I can understand how some people can struggle to pay it!
 
Soldato
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Have signed this.

Completely understand where OP is coming from. Was in this position myself 3yrs ago (+) when I had literally hundreds of pounds more going out than coming in. I offered the council £10 a week which they refused, I then asked £15 but nope you MUST pay the whole outstanding amount (over 700 Kiev that the ex promised she would pay) to be told we'll get a liability order against if its not brought up to date within 7days (sending reminders that must have been binned).

Hope the petition works but having signed the holiday charges for children petition and watching the gpvernment ignore the poor plebs I have no faith in them and what's more it puts the nail in the coffin for me as we don't live in a democracy, we vote for people to deliver "our ideals" but what we get is purely their ideals.

Good luck with the petition (the very nature of this law actually breaches the human rights act too)
 
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Have signed this.

Completely understand where OP is coming from. Was in this position myself 3yrs ago (+) when I had literally hundreds of pounds more going out than coming in. I offered the council £10 a week which they refused, I then asked £15 but nope you MUST pay the whole outstanding amount (over 700 Kiev that the ex promised she would pay) to be told we'll get a liability order against if its not brought up to date within 7days (sending reminders that must have been binned).

Hope the petition works but having signed the holiday charges for children petition and watching the gpvernment ignore the poor plebs I have no faith in them and what's more it puts the nail in the coffin for me as we don't live in a democracy, we vote for people to deliver "our ideals" but what we get is purely their ideals.

Good luck with the petition (the very nature of this law actually breaches the human rights act too)

So? You should have paid council tax and rent/mortgage first over and above everything else
 
Soldato
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MrMoonX, when your mortgage chomped away 60%+ of your income and then legally mandatory buildings insurance at 50 a month, paying board at parents, car insurance to get to work (you know so you can pay this) then a crippling amount of Child Support (that legally has to be paid or you face earnings being seized, sent to prison, coming out and still owing these arrears)... It's either pay council or starve.

The good news is that after 8months of being hammered by the council and when they threatened charging by attachment for an empty hous offered a friendly person an ultimatum to be fair with me and I'll be fair with you. Low they finally made an agreement suitable for me and meaning they now get CT at a fraction of the amount a month and also made it fair by lumping my ex with attachments. I call each and every month now and make payment at 55-60 a month as opposed to double that.
 
Soldato
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You could always question seriously what this tax pays for, it certainly hasn't fixed the 4ftx2ft potholes that is 10inches deep (like me later in the Mrs if ya get me lads) and its been reported since last autumn.

The house now empty uses 0 services, how can a private property that's empty use services?
 
Soldato
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I think it's pretty obvious this isn't about him personally but a cause he is interested in.

specifically

"This isn't about people refusing to pay their Council Tax. It is about people not being able to afford to pay the Council Tax. And the fact that, it you CAN'T pay and have no means to pay, the Council can still apply for your committal to prison."

No it isn't, you are referring to the bit that got added after he started getting slated. He quite clearly stated "What will happen if I continue to ignore my Council Tax bill or refuse to pay it?"

If you ignore your council tax bill or refuse to pay it then there should be penalties, simples.

I don't earn loads, neither does my GF but we don't simply ignore or refuse to pay our council tax bill.
 
Soldato
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ChCh, NZ
Under the current Law in England and Wales as it stands, in one single year the Courts sent 1,202 people to jail for non-payment. The average sentence was 32 days at a cost of imprisonment of over £100 per day with some Magistrates imprisoning people for three months.

It has been reported in the Independent newspaper - ‘Courts jail civil debtors unlawfully’
that:-

“the bench jailed for nine days a young mother who owed £22 – she was freed two days later on the orders of a High Court judge… A 74 year old in a residential home was arrested by police at the council home and taken before magistrates who sent him to jail… Justices sent… a mother of four, to jail for 28 days. Her 21-year-old son, physically and mentally disabled, is dependent on her care…”

“The High Court has said that Magistrates' powers to jail are to enforce payment, not to punish, and that they should only be used as a last resort. “Despite this stream of recent authorities, Magistrates are continuing to make the same errors and continue in increasing numbers to punish the vulnerable,”

“One of the main reasons is that Council Tax… defaulters have fewer rights than criminals. There is no Legal Aid - meaning the poor and often those with learning disabilities have to represent themselves at hearings they do not understand; there is no requirement for pre-sentence reports so Magistrates are often unaware of the full impact of their penalty; there are no "public interest" considerations which in criminal cases allow for decisions not to prosecute, for example, the elderly; and there is no appeal - apart from judicial review.”

“Ian Wise, a barrister…who has taken hundreds of such cases to the High Court, said:
“The time has come . . . to put an end to this appalling catalogue of injustice.”… “Every day in the local paper you can read of criminal cases where people convicted of taking and driving away, assault, credit card fraud and criminal damage are being placed on probation – yet people with little or no income who try but fail to pay their local tax are going to prison.”

Please sign and share the E-petition to Change the Law @

https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/57160/signature/new

to Stop being put in Jail for not being able to afford to pay Council Tax.

Sob stories. Sob stories.

I'm 100% sure the council awarded them ample time to pay, they just chose to waste whatever money they had left on crap. I mean, newspapers have always been 110% fair in their reporting, right?

As I said before, this is the generation of zero responsibility and sob stories.
 
Soldato
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ChCh, NZ
Op, you should know better than to expect sympathy from this forum.

I resent paying council tax much of the time, but such is life, stuff has to be paid for.

I resent paying for it ALL of the time knowing it's been wasted by well meaning idiots or propping up the lives of the lazy, irresponsible and unproductive, but such is life heh.
 
Soldato
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You could always question seriously what this tax pays for, it certainly hasn't fixed the 4ftx2ft potholes that is 10inches deep (like me later in the Mrs if ya get me lads) and its been reported since last autumn.

The house now empty uses 0 services, how can a private property that's empty use services?

Is the house still in an area that has roads? Roads that are cleaned regularly? Roads that are not overflowing with refuse because that gets collected regularly? If so then I'm pretty sure you still owe council tax.
 
Soldato
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21 Jan 2007
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8,704
Why shouldn't people pay their tax like everyone else?

I never moved into a place where I couldn't afford to pay my bills, if people don't like the fact they live in a ****hole because their job pays dick, they can move.

Council tax pays for the roads, the binmen, the local parks, the preservation of significant buildings. I mean a lot of people in my local council deserve to be shot but it's better than nothing.
 
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