Fleecehold

[Goodie]

Not sure if this is a GD type thread, or if it would be better served in home and garden..

This seems to be getting a bit more traction lately, with it possibly being included in the leasehold bill that going through parliament at the moment. It's something that we're tangled up with at the moment, yes I knew it was there when we purchased our home, however within 3 years it's spiralled already. Our smallish new build estate of freehold 35 homes requires a management company with annual fees. Initially these were £100/year, 3 years on and we're not at £383/year with an outstanding bill for works faults with the streets waste water pump at around £15k to be split between properties. It seems that it's quite a widespread thing for new build properties of the last 5 years. Is anyone else feeling the pain of it all?

This is the breakdown of our current annual costs...



All we really see for this is the lawns on the very front of the estate are cut around 20 times per year, and the waste water pump is serviced.

For reference, a BBC of article from today:
Housing estate 'fleeceholds' the next great scandal, Tory peer warns

 

[Minusorange]

What a surprise the most expensive item is Management fee, also wtf is an estate sinking fund ?

 

[BUDFORCE]

The laws in Scotland are far better than England about this.

 

[weringo]

The management charge for our flat this year was £4k, so I would happily take your £383 bill

Ours started at £3k 3 years ago when we bought the place, so the increase has been steep realtive to inflation. I have no idea how yours has increased by 300% though

 

[Uther]

Just a licence to print money for these scumbags.

 

[RobHu]

I suspect the more publicity this gets the more 'fleeceholds' will turn out like leaseholds that have high ground rent/service charges - i.e. almost impossible to sell. Maybe even worse because in a lot of cases there's literally nothing you can do as the management company is baked into the title deeds .

edit: I don't buy the often used argument of 'you knew what you were buying' either because you shouldn't need to be an expert in property/lease law to purchase a property. That's what you're paying your solicitor for! And more to the point such blatantly anti-consumer abuses simply shouldn't exist imo.

 

[Goodie]

What a surprise the most expensive item is Management fee, also wtf is an estate sinking fund ?

Apparently it's an ad hoc fund for if any unexpected costs/repairs, it's increased from £400 in 2022, to £1000 in 2023 and now £2000 for 2024. I need to make sure that any interest skimmed from holding that money is returned to the fund and not taken as additional company funds.

The management charge for our flat this year was £4k, so I would happily take your £383 bill

Ours started at £3k 3 years ago when we bought the place, so the increase has been steep realtive to inflation. I have no idea how yours has increased by 300% though

Ouch, that's painful. I can see that there would be some associated costs for a flat, although £3k is a big wedge. Is that London pricing? Kicks paying this out for a freehold detached house, especially when also paying around £2700 in council tax.

*edit* just to add in there is also a disclaimer that the company that is doing the landscaping has a shared director with the management company. Would love to see the tendering process that was put in place for that to remain fair.

 

[Goodie]

I suspect the more publicity this gets the more 'fleeceholds' will turn out like leaseholds that have high ground rent/service charges - i.e. almost impossible to sell. Maybe even worse because in a lot of cases there's literally nothing you can do as the management company is baked into the title deeds .

This has already happened in this estate, one of the neighbours house sale has fallen through twice now because of the outstanding £15k bill.

 

[m@rty]

What a surprise the most expensive item is Management fee, also wtf is an estate sinking fund ?

It's a fund to pay for when the houses start sinking into the ground because new build developers buy crap land with issues

 

[weringo]

Ouch, that's painful. I can see that there would be some associated costs for a flat, although £3k is a big wedge. Is that London pricing? Kicks paying this out for a freehold detached house, especially when also paying around £2700 in council tax.

Just outside London. I have seen some flats in London with an £8k management fee!

 

[200sols]

Would never buy a property with one of these charges. You're at the mercy of idiots and greed merchants.

 

[GreatAuk]

Whole idea of leaseholds just seems like a scam, especially for individual houses (ie not flats where there's an excuse that some other party might need to be responsible for the whole building, even though other management arrangements seem preferable).

My house is a leasehold, fortunately an old non-inflationary one so the annual cost is small and static. Still annoying that technically you have to get their permission to do certain things, and they want to charge you a couple of grand if you want to buy them out. Was wondering about buying them out a little while ago but hoping if I hold on a bit a Labour government might pass a law that makes it easier / cheaper or something.

Must be annoying for you OP, but silver lining is at least you don't have have exponentially increasing annual ground rent like some people do.

 

[LostCorpse]

*edit* just to add in there is also a disclaimer that the company that is doing the landscaping has a shared director with the management company. Would love to see the tendering process that was put in place for that to remain fair.

conflict of interest tbh

@200sols - Would never buy a property with one of these charges. You're at the mercy of idiots and greed merchants.

sadly it feels like it gets harder each year

 

[andybird123]

This seems to be getting a bit more traction lately, with it possibly being included in the leasehold bill that going through parliament at the moment.

Saw a thing in the news today that government thinks they'll be on the hook for up to 40bn in lost pension funds if they go ahead with the whole thing so might not be happening.

 

[jpaul]

Initially these were £100/year, 3 years on and we're not at £383/year with an outstanding bill for works faults with the streets waste water pump at around £15k to be split between properties.

yeh - that's different we're, also, not on the full mains sewerage and the estate needed separate pumps&tanks so there is a management company ... would be nice if the water board could take it over.

 

[200sols]

yeh - that's different we're, also, not on the full mains sewerage and the estate needed separate pumps&tanks so there is a management company ... would be nice if the water board could take it over.

Do what they do, find a river and pump it in.

 

[Minusorange]

It's a fund to pay for when the houses start sinking into the ground because new build developers buy crap land with issues

Well I know they enjoy building on flood plains but I didn't think they'd have a fund literally named for it

 

[Azza]

What on earth are all these charges for?

Water pump maintenance? Electricity charges? Management fees

Scammers.

 

[Cleisthenes]

Well I know they enjoy building on flood plains but I didn't think they'd have a fund literally named for it

That is not what it is… it’s just another name for a slush fund

 

[413x]

These charges are horrible things.
Literally hold you to ransom.

Are they usually on flats? It was one thing I made sure this house didn't have.