Jules Bianchi thread for updates and discussion

Soldato
Joined
28 Dec 2003
Posts
16,080
Won't quote smr's graphic again for space reasons but is that representative of where the (double) yellow flag section started? If so then it's just before the corner and in the braking zone. If that's right then makes no sense at all as all the drivers would be on the limit of braking already and would thus be unable to slow down even more for yellows.

Personally, my two biggest questions over this are firstly how far ahead of Sutil's incident the yellow flags were waving and secondly why the SC wasn't deployed immediately.
 
Caporegime
Joined
8 Mar 2007
Posts
37,146
Location
Surrey
To answer your questions, as far ahead as they always are, and because they don't for that sort of thing.

We haven't seen this incident due to exceptional circumstances, its an exceptional incident resulting from normal circumstances. Bianchi did what any other driver would do in the same situation.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
29 Jun 2003
Posts
34,515
Location
Wiltshire
Sutils crash did not warrant a safety car. The conditions may have though depending on who you speak with

In those conditions on that corner, I'd say it did (easy to say now of course). Somewhere with massive run off or a crane to retrieve a car then no need.
 
Caporegime
Joined
8 Mar 2007
Posts
37,146
Location
Surrey
The FIA have painted themselves into a corner. Had they deployed the SC the race would have ended 7 laps later still behind the SC because they have implimented regulations that make it impossible to have a quick SC. Then there would have been backlash from the fans and teams about the SC ruining the racing.

So they didn't, and this is what happened.

Actually, to be fair, they did have a double yellow flag zone. But because they don't enforce it every driver simply ignores it.
 
Last edited:
Caporegime
Joined
19 May 2004
Posts
31,559
Location
Nordfriesland, Germany
In those conditions on that corner, I'd say it did (easy to say now of course). Somewhere with massive run off or a crane to retrieve a car then no need.

I don't think that a safety car was required. The car was quickly recovered without marshals on track (almost - had Bianchi come off a few moments later then all would have been well).

I do think that drivers are too casual about double-waved yellows. Especially so in those kind of conditions.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
11 Mar 2004
Posts
76,634
Teams certainly didn't seem perplexed. Not many came in fir a put stop.
It wasn't needed nor was it for weather. If it was needed due to weather they should have pitted for full wets.

What does need to be addressed, is the marginal lift need to comply with yellows/double yellows. Either enforce a decent lift with black flags until they get the message, or implement pit lane speed limiter in slow zones.
 
Man of Honour
Joined
29 Jun 2003
Posts
34,515
Location
Wiltshire
I don't think that a safety car was required. The car was quickly recovered without marshals on track (almost - had Bianchi come off a few moments later then all would have been well).

Marshals are needed each time a car is lifted. He had as much chance of hitting them (looked like three were there this time).

I do think that drivers are too casual about double-waved yellows. Especially so in those kind of conditions.

Yep definitely.
 

One

One

Soldato
Joined
24 Aug 2011
Posts
6,162
Location
ABQ, NM
It was double waved yellows. Plenty of other drivers got around the corner without coming off. The fact he aquaplaned means he went too fast for the corner. How can you go too fast for a corner under yellows which means you should be going slower than normal. If that suggests he would have gone even quicker under green flags then he would have had an enormous accident into the barriers!
 
Soldato
Joined
28 Dec 2003
Posts
16,080
Sutils crash did not warrant a safety car. The conditions may have though depending on who you speak with

Combination of the two definitely did. As you say, some are already claiming that the conditions alone warranted a safety car. If that's the case then deploying a recovery vehicle track-side of the barriers in those conditions certainly warranted it.
 
Soldato
Joined
31 May 2009
Posts
21,257
Combination of the two definitely did. As you say, some are already claiming that the conditions alone warranted a safety car. If that's the case then deploying a recovery vehicle track-side of the barriers in those conditions certainly warranted it.

I disagree, teams pitted and swapped to intermediates, if it warranted a safety car then cars would have been swapping to full wets with the intention of trying to stay on track and between the lines, rather than swapping to the tyres giving faster performance.

In a double yellow zone the driver increased his speed to 210kmph past a crash. Did everyone else do the same?
 
Soldato
Joined
28 Dec 2003
Posts
16,080
I disagree, teams pitted and swapped to intermediates, if it warranted a safety car then cars would have been swapping to full wets with the intention of trying to stay on track and between the lines, rather than swapping to the tyres giving faster performance.

Personally I feel a SC should be deployed whenever a recovery vehicle is track-side and it's wet - it's just too dangerous not to.

In a double yellow zone the driver increased his speed to 210kmph past a crash. Did everyone else do the same?

I don't know but the fact that drivers don't heed yellows as much as they should is just another argument for taking matters out of their hands and deploying a SC.
 
Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
33,188
Does anyone know how the data actually well, is detected? If the car aquaplanes then the tires are effectively off the surface and the rpm would shoot through the roof. He was relatively slow early in the corner, could the apparent increase simply be the car losing traction and the tires spinning up significantly. I was also wondering if that section was downhill or not, because he could also aquaplane and essentially accelerate downhill to some degree at that point.

Either way, on corners that are known to be the first or worst places for aquaplaning any kind of extra vehicle should not be allowed on track without safety car. I'm not saying they had to have a safety car, just that Sutil's car alone would be a LOT less dangerous than a 6.5T truck of any kind.

They could have put out a more significant warning and as discussed things like a speed limit to prevent cars losing out to each other would reduce the risk many times over.

In the dry on any given corner someone goes up making a mistake themselves, with aquaplaning, particularly in changing conditions, the track can be safe one lap and dangerous at half the speed the next lap, a driver can go off without warning without driving unsafely and without being at fault. So at lets say Silverstone in dry conditions one car going off at one corner doesn't increase the chances another car will go off at the same place.

In the wet that isn't true, if one car went off because of aquaplaning there is a significantly increased chance that another car will go off in the same place within the next few laps, aquaplaning in worsening conditions often catches more than one driver out.

This is obvious, it's known, it's happened in LOADS of wet races.... putting a 6.5t truck out there when you have a statistically significant chance of another car going off on the same corner is literally insane. It's negligent, if Bianchi died, you might wonder if it was criminally negligent.... I think it might be.
 
Soldato
Joined
28 Dec 2003
Posts
16,080
I see Claire Williams has now waded in with the closed cockpit rubbish, alongside Smedley.

Is it just me or do these people not have a clue what they're talking about? I grant that closed cockpits do have advantages and would help in many situations but Bianchi's accident wasn't one of them. That impact was violent enough to rip the roll hoop clean off. Any type of canopy would have been instantly destroyed and simply turned into yet more debris to get thrown at the driver.

Comments such as these from Williams look like little more than ill-informed knee-jerk responses. Frankly I think all major figures within F1 should just keep quiet on such issues until more is known following the FIA investigation.
 
Soldato
Joined
13 Feb 2003
Posts
10,631
Location
London
I think one of the critical things at the moment is just what is going to happen at Sochi...?

A full investigation into the crash won't be completed, nor will there have been much time for an appropriate meeting and review of procedures. You just know its going to be something the media and broadcasters are going to hound everybody in the pit lane about this weekend.

So what do people think?
A more cautious Charlie Whiting? Bringing out the safety car for recoveries? Or perhaps a harder line on people infringing speed during yellow flags?
 
Back
Top Bottom