LAN tournament "scam"

[aln]

So I happen to be part of a small COD community, which LAN tournaments are often created by.

One such tournament was created by some kid calling Mint, and he made it look like he had the backing of a reasonable organisation and people started paying him for the LAN he set-up. The conditions are all set-up in the thread, which I obviously can't link because there’s a lot of unhappy swearies but these are:

I'm happy to announce the CoD2 LAN. Our target is 16 teams. Any team who pays for a ticket and is then unable to go must email Sam.L[at]team-winfakt.org to advise them of a ticket sale.
For any questions about the event, also email Sam.L[at]team-winfakt.org

Disclaimer: Ticket costs will be refunded only if the event does not go ahead.

How to sign up:
Please send an email to Sam.L[at]team-winfakt.org with the following information:

-Team Name + Nationality
-Roster (Nickname + Full Name) + Nationality
-Spokesperson per team & his contact information
-Subject title: "CoD2 LAN Signup - [YOUR TEAMNAME]"

Dates: 12th, 13th November.
Time: 09:00 GMT
Location: *CONFIRMED* Cybergames Zone, Newcastle. United Kingdom.
Entry fee: €350 - Bank Transfer.
Prize purse: €4,000 (If a minimum of 16 teams signup)
TUP / BYOC: This is a turn-up-and-play event. You don't need to bring your PC.
Bootcamp: Bootcamping is possible on the Friday, please email for more info on that.
Casting: Rage TV


Prize Triggers:

All before sponsors, possible hardware and prize money added on in near future


12 Teams
1st: 1500€
2nd 750€
3rd: 350€

16 Teams
1st: 2000€
2nd: 1250€
3rd: 750€

You can probably ask dr google to find the thread.

Now unfortunately the story is full of holes. Somewhere in the thread he's agreed (before anyone signed up) that he needs a minimum of 8 teams, I can't see this at the current time. He needed to achieve these 8 teams by a predefined deadline, and word is he's moved the deadline back two weeks since his original deadline, but once again this is an internet forum where things can be easily edited (I know, stupid of us to arrange LANs in such a format, but it's went well for many years thus far).

Anyway 5 teams have paid, and the deadline was tomorrow so everyone was happily thinking they're getting refunds, as 3 weeks is too short notice for a realistic amount of time to book flights, accommodation and annual leave in time for the LAN. Pretty much every team has confirmed they're not going and requested a refund. He then comes out of nowhere saying that's he's now got 3 mix teams from random people who frequent the LAN centre and that they're paying him before the deadline.

Now I guess easier to wait and see what he does tomorrow before I really do anything, but i figured I could source some amusing advice from GD before hand. Opinions?

 

[Neodite]

It costs €1600 to host a LAN event?

 

[paddy]

Smells fishier than Neptunes sphincter

 

[Abraham]

It costs €1600 to host a LAN event?

To hire the place out probably costs a few 100 and then he'll be making a profit, not sure he says anywhere he won't be turning a profit.

To the OP: Not sure why you're saying it's a scam, you've paid to go and he's organised it. You were expecting it not to happen so you'd get a refund, but it is, is there anything to suggest if you go then it won't happen?

It wouldn't seem unreasonable to move the deadline back if it meant he could find enough teams to make it go ahead, he has probably had to pay a deposit to secure the venue.

 

[Cosimo]

Looks like the WinFaktAll tournament:

http://www.tek-9.org/forum/call_of_...h_-_13th_november-79790.html?page=11#comments

 

[Swifty55]

Looks like the WinFaktAll tournament:

http://www.tek-9.org/forum/call_of_...h_-_13th_november-79790.html?page=11#comments

As I'm getting emails by people asking me if Team WinFakt is organizing this lan.

No Team WinFakt is not organizing this lan, mint "worked" for us as a news-writer when he started with the lan.
He could use the logo to get some advertise, so mint you can delete the logo

I hope it will have a happy end

 

[SuperTronNarwhal]

I think his name is enough to know its un professional.

 

[aln]

It costs €1600 to host a LAN event?

It's been documented to cost more, as often the venues will need to close down to accommodate the tournament. I reckon the people organising these LANs probably lack negotiating skills, and are probably skimming from the top as well.

In any event, the venue appears to be aware of the kid as they advertised the COD4 version of the same LAN which also resulted in a failure. I did contact the venue, and asked them to step into and help us come to a reasonable discourse, but no response as of yet.

 

[aln]

To hire the place out probably costs a few 100 and then he'll be making a profit, not sure he says anywhere he won't be turning a profit.

To the OP: Not sure why you're saying it's a scam, you've paid to go and he's organised it. You were expecting it not to happen so you'd get a refund, but it is, is there anything to suggest if you go then it won't happen?

It wouldn't seem unreasonable to move the deadline back if it meant he could find enough teams to make it go ahead, he has probably had to pay a deposit to secure the venue.

We organise these things well in the future so they are feasible for people from other counties to attend, and thus changing pushing the deadline back is completely unreasonable as it's made the event completely unaffordable at this point for some of the guys who were supposed to be coming. Deadlines are put in place to allow those who sign up to know when the LAN will be confirmed (which it has not been at this point), so we can book time off work, and buy travel tickets at prices which are affordable.

As for the "scam" part, the quotes were my attempt at detailing that this may not legally be considered a scam, but both the actions of this individual and the creation of 3 teams out of thin air make the whole ordeal morally ambiguous, and at this point the only reason our team is attending is so the kid can't just pocket the money without providing all the things stipulated in the agreement we had when we signed up for the tournament. On that note, the agreements made make the LAN as without those agreements, there is no reason for us to sign up. There is also nothing to suggest he should be able to change any of the agreements after someone has paid him.

 

[Kol]

Why is everyone paying in Euros for a British event?

 

[Abraham]

We organise these things well in the future so they are feasible for people from other counties to attend, and thus changing pushing the deadline back is completely unreasonable as it's made the event completely unaffordable at this point for some of the guys who were supposed to be coming. Deadlines are put in place to allow those who sign up to know when the LAN will be confirmed (which it has not been at this point), so we can book time off work, and buy travel tickets at prices which are affordable.

Yeah, having read the thread since my post I can see that, in general terms it's not too unreasonable though, and unless the deadline is evidenced at the time of the other teams paying I'm not sure there's really a legal standpoint.
Tickets for an event are usually only refundable in the instance of cancellation or rescheduling, there is no "I've decided I don't want to go so I must have my money back".

Seeing as he's not made mention of a deposit, which would be the simplest explanation, I'd say he has probably spent what would have been his profits (1600 euro minus any hire costs), which while morally dodgy I'm not sure where he'd stand legally. It's all very well having people say "well you changed this so the contract is null and void" but you'd need serious legal advice to find out the extent to which this is true. Really you could have done with someone clarifying that if enough teams hadn't paid up by the deadline then the event would not go ahead. As it is the agreement is that if the event goes ahead he won't refund. Despite it's relevance to individuals I'm not sure that the deadline for payment being moved would affect that.

 

[aln]

Really you could have done with someone clarifying that if enough teams hadn't paid up by the deadline then the event would not go ahead. As it is the agreement is that if the event goes ahead he won't refund. Despite it's relevance to individuals I'm not sure that the deadline for payment being moved would affect that.

This was 100% clarified before any of the teams signed up, but because this is an online forum with an edit post function the problem isn't so much the clarification as it is proving there was any clarification after he removes it.

Also I don't believe changing the terms of an agreement is generally reasonable, however I'd gather many companies stipulate they retain the ability to do this in their T&C, which what allows this to happen, where he on the other hand has no such agreement.

Why is everyone paying in Euros for a British event?

Teams signed up to the event consist of 1 UK team, 1 Finnish team, 1 Dutch team, 1 Swedish team, and one bunch of random misfits. Whilst the event is taking place in the UK, it's not uncommon to discuss these things in euros.

I think his name is enough to know its un professional.

Whilst I understand your point, this is a gaming community which successfully runs events like this quite a lot. It's probably a good idea for people to change their ways, but these aren't supposed to be highly professional run events, they're supposed to be members of the community coming together to run a LAN amongst themselves.

This is where the problem comes from, the guy seems to think it's appropriate to throw a LAN funded by our community for some random people nobody knows, when the only reason we were even remotely interested is because we'd have been able to compete against some other top teams in the game we play.

Now obviously there are some points we just cannot argue against, but if we could find a way to null and void the agreement, I believe we'd be morally right to do so. I also think we probably can, we just need to prove it. Regardless, keep those opinions coming.

 

[DiCe!]

hunt him down, break his legs. Hes taken your money and spent it on a new PC. You wont be getting it back.

 

[J86]

Ahh, I remember Mint. Used to hack on COD2 and COD4 lmao!

Get in touch with ono the cod4 player or zenr, shouldnt be too hard to track them down. I think they both know him so may have his details.

 

[Efour]

good way to rip off people, reasonable low chance of comebacks due to distances.

What a ****.

 

[Zodar]

good way to rip off people, reasonable low chance of comebacks due to distances.

What a ****.

Yeah and in addition nothing sucks more than when you get tools like him in small, close knit communities like this one. Just hurts trust all around and since the number of members is small anything that discourages people from signing up for future events is really bad.

 

[Abraham]

I don't think he's set out to scam anyone, he has in all likelihood spent enough of the money that he'd struggle to pay people back, so has done his best to make the event happen. The only thing under question is whether him changing the deadline for payment breaks the contract of registration.

 

[J86]

I don't think he's set out to scam anyone, he has in all likelihood spent enough of the money that he'd struggle to pay people back, so has done his best to make the event happen. The only thing under question is whether him changing the deadline for payment breaks the contract of registration.

He will have done.

I played with him a few years ago before I quit. Sounds like exactly the kind of thing he would do.

He used to attempt to spread viruses so he could steal steam accounts -.-

 

[DirtyJester]

This kid is his first name Makina by any chance .....

 

[Abraham]

He will have done.

I played with him a few years ago before I quit. Sounds like exactly the kind of thing he would do.

He used to attempt to spread viruses so he could steal steam accounts -.-

And how would he have scammed people if 8 teams had registered by the deadline?

Sure he's probably making a fair whack of profit, but it doesn't look like he's "scamming" people.