Poll: Official 2023 Las Vegas Grand Prix Thread - The Strip, Las Vegas - Round 22
- Thread starter chrismscotland
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Soldato
I guess Red Bull should be putting you in that race seat for next year. Show us how it's done.
Associate
Better than most races this season, seemed to go by really quickly as well.
I still fundamentally think that the penalty for what Max did to Leclerc and what Russell did to Max needs to be reviewed. 5s is really nothing (appreciate it cost Russell P4) but Max dived into T1, didn't make the corner, forces Leclerc to miss the corner and by the time they're at turn 4 Max is already 3 seconds clear because of it.
I still fundamentally think that the penalty for what Max did to Leclerc and what Russell did to Max needs to be reviewed. 5s is really nothing (appreciate it cost Russell P4) but Max dived into T1, didn't make the corner, forces Leclerc to miss the corner and by the time they're at turn 4 Max is already 3 seconds clear because of it.
Shots fired 
"We're going there on pretty much equal points, we have a proper race director, so that should be fine,"
racingnews365.com
"Wolff: We have a 'proper race director' in Ferrari Abu Dhabi fight"
"We're going there on pretty much equal points, we have a proper race director, so that should be fine,"
Wolff: We have a 'proper race director' in Ferrari Abu Dhabi fight
Mercedes and Ferrari head into the final race of the season with just four points separating them for second in the Constructors' Championship.
racingnews365.com
Soldato
If you believe your comments about Max's move on Russell then I don't think you understand Formula 1. Russell has already admitted being at fault for it. In the majority of overtakes there is always an element of the car being overtaken not just turning in on the racing line as they would always cause an incident. If someone can get along side you or ahead of you on the inside line then you have to back out or take a wider line and accept the overtake. It's how racing is done. You have to be pretty ruthless to be a top F1 driver, you can't just keep waiting for a super clean DRS overtake like in your idealistic world. If someone leaves the door wide open then it's a perfectly legitimate overtake and that's what Russell did.
Russell was caught sleeping, said so himself in the interview. Unfortunately a lot of people on here are blindly bias to Merc - no idea why actually.
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Soldato
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Yep, completely accept the premise of overtaking. But all too often that isn’t what Max does. He makes a lunge late on the brakes and is unable to hold the line without making contact with another car or forcing them wide because he is too hot (they move out of the way for risk of crashing and he clears off up the road). There’s a big difference between that and being brave on the brakes, making the turn and having a fair wheel to wheel run through a corner with a competitor, leaving them racing room.
Simply saying “well I’m here you need to back out or we will crash” is a little immature.
I’m willing to concede George was caught napping, but that does not negate my other observations about Max’s overtaking in general.
Also my point about DRS is one of needless risk. Max has demonstrated on many occasions that he puts his car in needlessly risky places when a little more patience would achieve the same thing much more safely (and result in less wear on the tyres). He had absolutely no need to put that move on George (or on Leclerc to be fair).
So why do it?
Soldato
Soldato
The quote that was and seemingly still is taken completely out of context
Soldato
While that's often the case I think it's relevant here. Best drivers will not just sit and wait for DRS and will go for overtake if they think they can make it. Waiting to get to DRS zone could be difference whether you can catch cars further ahead or not. Also how boring would that be for us if all we get are DRS overtakes.
Soldato
That’s fair and I think it is often overlooked how much of split split-second decision it often is.
Soldato
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I don’t think anyone is suggesting DRS only overtakes. There are many examples of hard but fair racing in corners up and down the grid by drivers in similarly matched machinery. I don’t think being a hard environment in which to operate precludes sportsmanship and respect.
Part of the skill of being a racing driver is to of course chase the gaps but also to temper that with experience and probability of outcome. Also having strategy in mind and picking the right moment. As an example, Max is constantly having to be told about overcooking his tyres because he struggles to balance the will to go fast with the need to moderate deltas.
The coming together with Leclerc and George could have ended Max’s race and the risk was needless. That’s two instances where Max got lucky and was fortunate to be in a rocket ship of a car and could recover his race. He also got super lucky with the safety car. Eventually luck runs out and other teams will field cars that are competitive.
I accept with overtaking that sometimes it’s a split decision and sometimes drivers get it wrong, but as someone mentioned earlier, stuffing it up the inside has somewhat become Max’s signature overtaking manoeuvre (and not in a good way).
Soldato
Stuffing it up the inside is no different to Senna, Hamilton, Prost Hunt or even Mansell, to name just a few. It is down to a belief that you are the faster driver in the faster car, in Max's case this being correct, and therefore anyone else is in the way. It is this belief that I'm going to go for it and if you don't avoid me then we'll have a accident.
Lewis still does it very often but little, unsurprisingly, is said of course.
But there is absolutely nothing wrong with that and why some take offence to complaining and single out Max beggars belief really, it's what makes this period of domination exciting otherwise we'd just have completely boring races where everyone is too frightened to make a move in a corner and any overtakes would only take place on a straight, then some would be complaining about that.
It's called competitive motor racing, occurs across every other level of the sport and there is nothing whatsoever wrong in that.
Lewis still does it very often but little, unsurprisingly, is said of course.
But there is absolutely nothing wrong with that and why some take offence to complaining and single out Max beggars belief really, it's what makes this period of domination exciting otherwise we'd just have completely boring races where everyone is too frightened to make a move in a corner and any overtakes would only take place on a straight, then some would be complaining about that.
It's called competitive motor racing, occurs across every other level of the sport and there is nothing whatsoever wrong in that.
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I think the main problem is stuffing it up the inside and then not making the corner/going off track. That is just cheating.
Exactly what I was going to say. There’s two rules that max consistently breaks when doing his signature move. 1 - you have to be ahead by the apex and 2 - you have to leave space. He consistently does neither.
You can quote Senna all you like but these rules are there to make racing, racing. Otherwise you’d have everyone going for a one inch gap from 5m back and they’d be in the “right” because the other car turned into them.
You only have to look at Brazil 2021 I think it was where he forced Lewis a country mile off track through his over-aggression. And then obviously the first corner at AD 21 where fortunately by that point Lewis had pre-planned for such a manoeuvre. At that point in the race it was kinda funny hearing RB’s disbelief when on the blower to Masai that he wouldn’t have to give the place back, and Max’s usual tactic hadn’t worked.
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