*** Official Hyperoptic Discussion Thread ***

[Rainmaker]

Still jealous.

Following on from this thread about 10Gbe home equipment. Wouldn't you actually need a 10Gbe NIC to fully take advantage of a symmetric Hyperoptic et al. connection, in the same way a 100/10 card will only do ~80Mbps throughput?

I'm presuming that's why their website says the 'fastest' modem/router they could find only puts through about 850Mbps - which I guess means it's a gigabit router running flat out. So you'd really need a 10Gbe card to take full advantage? Not that I'd begrudge buying one if I actually had it available in this area.

</bitter>

EDIT: Just seen they're considering Liverpool for their next rollout. W00t. I'd move house to get this service without hesitation!

 

[bremen1874]

To take full advantage of a Gigabit connection you only need a Gigabit router. Why would you need a router with 10x the throughput?

The limitation is the processing power a router needs to have to handle a Gigabit connection. They've presumably had to find router that provides decent performance, and doesn't cost them a fortune.

As far as I can see their entire business model is based on a hope that a much larger player will, at some point in the near future, buy them out.

 

[Rainmaker]

To take full advantage of a Gigabit connection you only need a Gigabit router. Why would you need a router with 10x the throughput?

The limitation is the processing power a router needs to have to handle a Gigabit connection. They've presumably had to find router that provides decent performance, and doesn't cost them a fortune.

As far as I can see their entire business model is based on a hope that a much larger player will, at some point in the near future, buy them out.

Because of overheads etc. As I pointed out in my last post, a 100Mbps NIC can only put through around 80Mbps no matter how powerful the rig is. To get 120Mbps from my cable broadband, I need a 1Gbps NIC (i.e. 10x the speed rating). A 100/10 NIC will not give me anything like full speed.

It stands to reason that on a 1Gbps node that a 1Gbps card will likewise be restricted to circa 80% of its rated capacity also, just the same as the gigabit router they hand out is.

 

[bremen1874]

Okay...

A 100Mb/s cabled connection will handle a real 100Mb/s. There are no overheads to consider (as you would need to with wireless or Powerline).

If you have a have 120Mb/s broadband it will obviously not fit down a 100Mb/s connection. The only reason you need a Gigabit connection is that is the next available step up. It's nothing to do with overheads, if there was a 120Mb/s Ethernet standard then that'd serve you just as well, but there isn't.

If you've got a Gigabit broadband connection you only need a router capable of handling Gigabit speeds. If they were selling a 1.2Gb/s service then you would need something faster, which would be 10Gbe, but they aren't.

They're providing a Gigabit service, and they'll be providing routers with Gigabit ports. What makes life complicated is that routers need processing power that's directly realated to their throughput (it isn't just a dumb Gigabit switch that lets everything through). A router suitable for domestic use that'll handle a full Gigabit connection, and at a price people will be willing to pay, probably doesn't exist. They've found something that handles a pretty decent 850Mb/s at a price they're willing to pay.

The Gigabit service they're providing is (AFAIK) delivered via twisted pair copper (presumably Cat5e, Cat6, or Cat6a). Their end of the cable will be plugged into a Gigabit network port on their equipment. The choice of 1Gb/s as the highest teir isn't just a coincidence.

 

[sja360]

Chances are that you won't be able to pull the full gigabit download speed. I believe they state that? I'm sure having ~100MB/sec at your fingertips is plenty.

I can't imagine many sites or legitimate services can give you the full speed.

Wish I could get hyperoptic.

Can I ask what size building do you guys stay in that have their services?

 

[Rainmaker]

Okay...

A 100Mb/s cabled connection will handle a real 100Mb/s. There are no overheads to consider (as you would need to with wireless or Powerline).

If you have a have 120Mb/s broadband it will obviously not fit down a 100Mb/s connection. The only reason you need a Gigabit connection is that is the next available step up. It's nothing to do with overheads, if there was a 120Mb/s Ethernet standard then that'd serve you just as well, but there isn't.

If you've got a Gigabit broadband connection you only need a router capable of handling Gigabit speeds. If they were selling a 1.2Gb/s service then you would need something faster, which would be 10Gbe, but they aren't.

They're providing a Gigabit service, and they'll be providing routers with Gigabit ports. What makes life complicated is that routers need processing power that's directly realated to their throughput (it isn't just a dumb Gigabit switch that lets everything through). A router suitable for domestic use that'll handle a full Gigabit connection, and at a price people will be willing to pay, probably doesn't exist. They've found something that handles a pretty decent 850Mb/s at a price they're willing to pay.

I understand the processing power issue, I have a custom built IPFire hardware firewall/router at home. You say a 100/10 NIC will put through 100Mbps but while it may connect at 100Mbps they only ever give around 80Mbps actual throughput.

If what you said was correct then a card connected at 100/10 full duplex would give 100Mbps throughput on a 100Mbps (or 120Mbps) cable connection when it doesn't - it gives around 75Mbps to 80Mbps every time. In fact the stock support answer for people seeing circa 80Mbps speeds on a 100Mbps net connection is to check they are not using a 100/10 card when it should be gigabit to allow the full speed WAN > LAN.

 

[Uhtred]

Can you plug this into a pfsense server to get the full whack?

 

[bremen1874]

If the pfsense server had enough oomph behind it then you should get the full 'whack'.

If you happen to believe the 75-80% limited throughput theories, then no. But if there was a 80% limit due to overheads then no one will have even seen a 100Mb/s network transfer faster than 10MB/s, and I know I have. Maxing out a Gigabit connection with a single machine-to-machine transfer is more difficult, but that's usually down to the PCs and not the network.

Hyperoptic's own FAQ states that their supplied router will limit the speed to 829Mb/s, and for the full speed customers should connect directly to the Ethernet port on their wall.

 

[KIA]

100Mb NIC isn't limited to 80Mb real world throughput. You can use iperf to measure the bandwidth. The same applies to gigabit connections.

[ 4] 0.0-10.0 sec 1.10 GBytes 945 Mbits/sec

 

[Rainmaker]

100Mb NIC isn't limited to 80Mb real world throughput. You can use iperf to measure the bandwidth. The same applies to gigabit connections.

[ 4] 0.0-10.0 sec 1.10 GBytes 945 Mbits/sec

Fair enough, maybe it was just individual circumstances then. The only reason I knew my network was FUBARed was because I was only getting 80Mbps and I discovered the link was running at 100Mbps instead of 1Gbps. After some reading I was given the impression 80Mbps or so was all you could expect from a 100Mbps link and there's tons of entries on the VM forum etc suggesting a 100/10 NIC being the culprit for slow speeds. I thought the same must apply to gigabit cards as well.

 

[asim18]

The actual switch always operates at full whack in home grade routers. The thing which slows down all routers is NAT. This is why you only see ~85% through the WAN port and 100% though the LAN ports.

Most higher grade router manufacturers actually quote the throughput of the router's NAT separately from the port speeds.

 

[Rainmaker]

The actual routing always operates at full whack in home grade routers. The thing which slows down home grade routers is NAT. This is why you only see ~85% through the WAN port and 100% though your LAN ports.

Most higher grade router manufacturers actually quote the throughput of the router's NAT separately from the port speeds.

I thought so. At least now I know I'm not going mad lol I experienced it myself only last week.

 

[toString]

If anyone's interested in some pics when they did our FTTH here at Strata SE1. (They also had to install a media converter as well as the router due to having fibre to each flat).

http://damientombs.me.uk/misc/how2strata/?p=72

 

[Rainmaker]

If anyone's interested in some pics when they did our FTTH here at Strata SE1. (They also had to install a media converter as well as the router due to having fibre to each flat).

http://damientombs.me.uk/misc/how2strata/?p=72

Very interesting shots, thanks! I wonder why your speedtest only shows 100Mbps? I know not many servers are going to return gigabit speeds to one user, but the TBB speedtest can give me 120Mbps every time, so it's interesting you 'only' show as 90Mbps. I wonder if the sheer speed of your connection confuses the tester? That's what happens on the likes of Numion with UK cable connections - it registers around 8Mbps because it's just overwhelmed by the actual speed.

 

[toString]

Ah I only pay for 100mb/100mb, the 1gb/1gb option was a bit too pricey when I'd never come close to making use of it (yet!)

 

[Rainmaker]

Ah I only pay for 100mb/100mb, the 1gb/1gb option was a bit too pricey when I'd never come close to making use of it (yet!)

Ahh that makes sense then. Still, 100Mbps upload. The possibilities!! It's like having your own personal seedbox with unmetered bandwidth haha

 

[sony007]

If anyone's interested in some pics when they did our FTTH here at Strata SE1. (They also had to install a media converter as well as the router due to having fibre to each flat).

http://damientombs.me.uk/misc/how2strata/?p=72

Thanks for sharing those picture rainmaker. Can I just ask, exactly how many boxes do they need to install in your apartment? you appear to have quite a few, I was thinking it was just a sleek faceplate on the wall similar to a phone socket and router then connect to the faceplate.

 

[toString]

I'm not rainmaker, but I'll answer anyway...

Does depend on the building really. This one had fibre to each flat installed when they built it 4 years ago. So hyperoptic just installed their equipment in the basement (some sort of fibre switch) and then just a case of installing the small grey box and putting the media converter in it. The large grey box was there already (holds telephone/network/fibre/freeview/sky cables) and the other box is just your normal fuse box.

Normally they only install fibre to the basement, then just cable ethernet to your flat and put a nice faceplate by the door.

We have a faceplate also in that cupboard, you can just see it just above the BT faceplate on the right of the big grey box, but its a bit redundant as everything is so close anyway! A

Also they offered to wall mount the router in the same cupboard which was better for me anyway.

 

[sony007]

Apology for the name mixup toString. Oh ok so its just how your service was installed, I started to panic a tad thinking what have I not been told by hyper optic.

So you loving the service, what sort of speed were you receiving prior to moving into Strada or did you have broadband there before HO installed their service?

 

[toString]

Yeah for 3 years before HO I had normal ADSL from Be which was about 12mb. Pretty good.
The fibre cables were unused until HO came along and said they'd give use service. I think my fellow resident explained pages back that it was for a scheme the council were going to offer but it didn't happen in the end.
Also BT didn't want to bother with us at all. And even now we still cant get infinity etc, despite being practically in zone 1/central London.

Not that I/we care, as HO's service is faultless tbh. Although saying that just the other day I wrote to support about getting some weird dns issues and they are sending me their new router which should hopefully solve the problems with the old router.