The 150BHP Rover 416 Explained... Mod Reccomendations needed! :)

[mattyprice4004]

On the reccomendation of another forum member, here's a bit about the 416i Project!

Basically, I found the car at a local garage, in immaculate nick, and wanted a little project. The K-series engines Rover used are renown for being really efficient (I get ~38-40MPG and drive pretty quickly!) and fun to drive, so I thought why not eh

The only bad thing is the K-series lumps also have a rep for eating headgaskets. Not such a problem if you fix the issues that cause it - a new modified gasket, steel head locating dowels and a new thermostat being just a few things to help this. Anyway...

So far I've done the following to the engine side of things...

- Piper fast-road cams (Picked up from the bay for a ridiculously irresistible price by a friend... only to find they didn't fit his Rover 200. So he put them on mine! Hell of a job...)

- Larger bore 4-2-1 exhaust. About half an inch wider than the corroded original system, helps to free things up a fair bit.

- K&N Panel filter. I've chosen mods that make the car appear as standard as is possible - having an open cone that sounds like it's going to pull the tarmac off the road is hardly discreet. Added the fact that Rover put a (very good) cold air intake system on the K-series engined cars, it made sense.

- Aftermarket backbox - chosen for it's bland looks and not-so-sporty tone. Looks nice with a discreet chrome trim, and has a good rumble to it (Vid coming shortly).

- All new spark plugs and ignition system (Helped a lot with hesitation on happy pedal problems)

- Throttle body from a 1.8l Rover 400, slightly bigger than mine, mainly got to sort out mine sticking, but seems to have improved top-end a little xD


Cosmetic wise, not a lot has changed, I've renovated the interior with a lot of cleaning products and debadged it, thats about it for now. And colour coded the mirrors of course!

See the end of the post for soon to come mods, both engine and aesthetic


Some pics...

The engine bay. Bit of a c**p pic because of the lovely British weather.

Taken outside work Not been washed for a while.

Back view. Spoiler coming soon!

Front view, the fogs are standard. It does have a certain mean look about it I think!


Future mods:

Full cold-air induction kit
Half-leather seats and interior
Mesh upper and lower grille, and spray chrome grille surround red to match the car.
Alloys of course!

So what does everyone think? I think for a car that's usually considered rubbish and "old man", they don't half have a lot of poke. As standard they are about 110BHP, which in itself is good for a 1.6!
Now it positively flies - the boy racers in their Corsas/Puntos/Fiestas with a daft uni backbox and K&N cone filter are in serious trouble if they try and have me off at the lights!

Standard - 0-60: 10.0s. Power: 110BHP
Now (Est) - 0-60: 8-8.5 (Timed by a friend, I know its not reliable). Power: 145-155BHP (Estimated from individual mods).

So fire away, lets have some suggestions! If there's anything I've forgotten I'll add it, I'm sure theres a few minor bits.

Mat

 

[mattyprice4004]

ITBs would be a good way to go.

The real question is how much do you want to spend and how much risk of it blowing up is acceptable...

I've stripped down a K series before, so if I blow it up I can fix it again so anything is good! I know some people have turbo'd them, don't think that'll happen though

I'm not bothered about how much I spend - I love the car to bits and it never fails to amaze people with the ride quality and speed! So anything really.

 

[mattyprice4004]

blowing up a rover is VERY acceptable

PLEASE DO IT

Not really any need for that, it's my car and I don't come an p*** all over your stuff and what you like. This is a thread for people that want to help and look at what I've done, not troll.

If you don't have anything productive to say, please go elsewhere.

 

[mattyprice4004]

@G-Man: Thanks, I didn't like them either until I found this. Ironically enough, it was my Mum's friend who saw it, and heard my Fiesta had died from my Mum. She told her there was a Rover going cheap at the garage... I was sceptical, but surprised when I saw it

@Fox: Definitely, everyone has said that'd help it a lot. Think that's pretty high along the list, as well as the alloys

 

[mattyprice4004]

I don't think it'll fit, but sure as hell looks nice.

The 2l engine from either a 220 GSI or 220 Turbo will essentially straight-drop into my car, as it was an option to have the 2l (non-turbo) in the 400. So mounting points etc are all there.

137BHP standard for the NASP, 200ishBHP for the turbo. Yum!

This was a possible option for a next move, although big increases in power could prove problematic on my £25-a-corner tyres

 

[mattyprice4004]

@MrLOL: A ZS spoiler will fit straight onto mine
(Point of note - one thing that makes me chuckle are the MG owners who bang on about an MG not being the same as a Rover... park two next to each other and play spot the difference )

@jongeeone: 420s are seriously nice cars. The newer shape or the squarer one?

Mat

 

[mattyprice4004]

So, the conclusion to the thread is:

1) There is no evidence to suggest that 150BHP is an accurate figure.
2) You are deluded as to what "a certain mean look" is.
3) I don't know about round where you live, but round here 80-90% of the "boy racers" would still have you.

Keep it looking standard and its a nice enough first or second car. But don't bother modding it.

Okay...

1) This was worked out from gains from mods carried out to similar cars, either with my mates or on the net. Not an overestimated figure like most, my best guess.
2) I've been told my a few it does have a smart appearance, mates agree it doesn't have a softy-softy look.
3) Unless all the boy racers have Golf GTIs or something quicker, it's faster than most. Round here the car of choice is the 1.6/1.8 Astra, the Punto, 1.4 Corsa... you get the pic. Fair few chavs have the 1.6l 206s aswell... toast I might add

 

[mattyprice4004]

I reckon you're running about 125hp max.

Spend the money on a turbo lump.

So, fiestas and corsas with K&N filters and backboxes will be in trouble... by your rover with a K&N and a backbox?

The cams made the most difference. And besides, most have a 1.3l fiesta or 1.2 corsa... slow as hell and about as interesting as a brick wall as EVERYONE here has one

The turbo lump does seem a good idea, and not that expensive either. £300 ish for a good warranted lump, and about £200 for fitting, if I get a garage to drop it in and I finish the ancilliaries etc.

 

[mattyprice4004]

Lol round here they seem to be well in to shoving a big exhaust on the 1.2 Corsas and the like, you hardly any see any nice Saxos or 106GTIs and stuff

You need to bring a group of boy racers from near you up here to show the ones here that bombing it down a 30 road at 60 in a car that sounds stupidly loud but doesn't go anywhere isn't cool!

I accept criticism, afterall it helps me improve on things. Dyno run soon I think, I just want uncoloured views, not the 'all Rovers are crap, lardy and slow' view everyone seems to have.

 

[mattyprice4004]

Oh, don't get me wrong! As I said before, its a great first or second car, I just don't see the point in throwing money at it modifying it when it looks decent enough as it is. It will never be a performance car, or an agressive looker, so just use it as it was intended, and save for something properly fiesty

Could be worse, you could have payed multiple thousand pounds more for one tarted up with a tacky bodykit and an MG badge

Exactly, my mate has just this week bought an MG ZS 120, basically the same car as mine with sideskirts and a few extra badges (and a 1.8l engine more prone to head probs than mine!)

Mine was £600, including a recent head job, thermostat, 6 month warranty on the head etc, and 6 months MOT.

His? £2,000.... and it's got no service history or anything. Epic.

My next target is a Civic Type R... or a TDCI Focus. A couple of the lads from work have a Focus... peter212693 and Street from these forums

...and they're very smart cars for sensible money.

The Rover will get me to work for while longer yet... while I build a new gaming rig!

 

[mattyprice4004]

On the K-series the usual way the gaskets go is mixing the oil and coolant.

But they are also known to be prone to giving false symptoms - as in mayo in the oil when it's just condensation (as with most engines, but some are worse than others for it.)

Ultimate terminal signs are when severe water loss occurs, the oil actually emulsifies into choccy milkshake coloured goo, and the coolant looks like something you'd pull out of a McDonald's fryer, that is if you have any coolant left.

It is unusual for it to only occur one way - as in to get oily mayo but none in the coolant or vice versa. With the constantly changing pressures the exchange of fluids both ways is very common.

I wonder who remembers when engines were air cooled, and none of this was an issue

 

[mattyprice4004]

Fair enough, thanks for the input. I'm gonna get it rolling roaded soon, that should be interesting. Maybe we were a bit optimistic, it does feel better after the mods, esp at the very low and high ends.

Spose it'll see me through until funds allow for something else, the main reason I've kept it is because I think the K-series engines are a masterpiece of engineering for it's time, and I'm keen to keep learning about them.

The 2l Turbo isn't a K engine, it's a T series, so doesn't really have the weaknesses mine has, that'd be seriously fun to drive too

I always liked the 220 Coupe 'Tomcat', very smart IMO. Uses the same aforementioned 2l turbo engine, at around 200BHP standard. Also has a *very* nice, low interior, and great feel internally. Just the fuel cost scares me.

I'd be reluctant to sell this and move on as it's pretty nippy, handles well, and is very good on fuel for a 1.6. I get around 38-40MPG if I'm sensible (but still fairly hard driving).

There are a lot of modded cars in Preston - tis good to go and have a nosey and talk to a few of the owners when they meet. Scoobies seem very common

As for the HG related talk, I did my inlet manifold gasket 3 weeks ago and it cut my water loss a fair bit. Was losing about a litre per tank of fuel, now about half of that.

 

[mattyprice4004]

Good attitude to have mate, no one is dissing your work as you have done more than most people here but lots of valid comments about tuning that you are sensible taking on board by the sounds of it

sorry but the "Nippy" term makes me smile and always translates into a slow small car that gives the illusion of speed What other cars have you driven if I may ask as speed is relative to your experiences I suppose.

Lol suppose my mate's Metro would equate to nippy then, with mine I don't really feel the acceleration but always seem surprised to glance at the speedo and see I'm doing 60 or 70 when I thought i'd only picked upto maybe 40 or 50.
Doesn't half pull away in 2nd and 3rd.

Cars I've had a stab in...

My old Fiesta Diesel (oh dear god that was slow)
Astra 1.8 (fairly snappy when needed)
Fiesta Zetec 1.4 (again, not too bad)
Vectra 1.9CDTI (newer type, that was pretty decent)
Primera 2.0 SRi (fairly meh)

Those were pretty nice (apart from the diesel Fiesta, sadly the only one of the above I owned!), none of them felt a million miles away either way from the Rover from what I remember.

I think I might change a few plans and save for the Focus or something similar, as I've just noticed how cheap newer cars are... haven't been looking for a while

 

[mattyprice4004]

Cheers Pete I really wouldn't mind a Focus, they're nice and tidy, nippy enough, and look the dog's ********.

Until money permits, the Rover will stay though. As for the engine conversion, I looked into it a bit ago now, and it is possible - although the gearbox needs to be swapped, as does the subframe I think (mounting points are present though).

With regards to my mammoth coolant loss, I suspect the rad, as it has seen better days. K-series engines can also leak into a cylinder from the HG, so that's a possibility, although it is said I'd notice more steam and lumpy running.

I hate boy-racery mods, so everything will remain tasteful and such .

I'm happy with the car for now, thanks for everyone's input! And I thought all we talked about was computers... (and people's girlfriends )

Mat

 

[mattyprice4004]

Aye, his is decent, if he sells then I'd deffo take a look if the cash is there to do it!

I'd have to have a diesel, don't think I could afford to run a Ze.

Just been out in mine to Southport front for a walk, and reminds of how much I don't wanna get rid yet

Mat