The Indoor Riding/ Zwift/ TrainerRoad etc. Thread

[Junglist]

Whilst my turbo was in the shop for repair I tried my hand at training outside and I found the process pretty rubbish, if I am honest. I live pretty much by the Bristol-Bath cyclepath which is pretty flat (less than 65m over 36km) and only has 3 parts which would interrupt the ride, other than other cyclists, walkers etc.

I found it really hard to do the Z2/Endurance rides. I'd constantly be over the target watts - though I think it's known outside higher watts come far easier - or it would get to parts where I'd be at the end of the track and need to spin around mid interval.

I can't even begin to imagine how difficult it would be to stick to a higher intensity workout and trying to concentrate on what you should be doing whilst also remaining alert and conscientious to the other path users

 

[fez]

My point is all those muscular challenges are a good thing. Riding without erg teaches you how to pace efforts, how to vary cadence and control your power. Those are all important skills that translate straight to the road. A turbo is a very controlled riding environment and I think that’s both a blessing and a curse.

This is all just based on feels and what I would say is if erg mode helps people train more then that’s a good thing.

I think that you have a point but I don't think its as important as you are suggesting. First time out and about this year I struggled to pace myself and probably burnt a few too many matches on some hills but ultimately my fitness has increased a lot from doing almost entirely ERG workouts in the right power ranges. It only takes a few rides to start to translate that general fitness into the more specific needs of cycling outside.

In an ideal world, you train outside more but as Junglist found out, its really hard to follow a training plan outdoors. Doing hill repeats isn't so bad but many other times of ride are quite hard to manage vs just jumping on the trainer.

 

[Syla5]

No, slightly different, let’s say you go for an endurance ride on the road and middle of Z2 power for you is 180w. At points you’re going to be doing 110rpm at 30mph, and at others you might be doing 60rpm at 5mph, and even on the flat you’re constantly microadjusting as the road surface or wind direction changes. The muscular challenge is always changing and it’s not always comfortable.

Training in erg mode is absolutely going to build your aerobic fitness but I think it lacks a bit of specificity because you’re always training in that comfortable range.

This is just my opinion though.

The pretty basic plan ive just followed on zwift as a started had me covering all sorts of cadence ranges even while staying within zone bands on workouts. Some were z2 but would have periods of 110 rpm and 60 rpm. Its all covered and erg mode makes that much easier to be working in the zone with varying cadence without having peaks and troughs like you would out on the road. Ive found free riding on zwift none erg mode much harder to stay at consistent levels of power and within the right zone.

I think you are looking at erg mode very 1 dimensionally and thats not the case at all.

 

[One More Solo]

I think I've done an awful job at explaining myself. I'm not saying for a second the turbo is not essential for doing intervals and structured sessions as well as for longer rides when the weather is crappy. Being able to do set durations without interruption is really important. I pretty much do all my structured sessions on the turbo and a good chunk of my longer rides.

As I said above, if erg mode helps you get the hours in then that will always pay off over not doing the work. I just think erg mode is quite artificial and feels even less like riding a bike than a turbo in slope mode. Your power profile will never be the flat line you get in erg mode. It is natural to have peaks and dips and have to deal with them. Of course, the adaptation will come as you transition to the road after winter (if that ever ends) but my thinking is to make the gap as small as possible.

 

[Syla5]

I think I've done an awful job at explaining myself. I'm not saying for a second the turbo is not essential for doing intervals and structured sessions as well as for longer rides when the weather is crappy. Being able to do set durations without interruption is really important. I pretty much do all my structured sessions on the turbo and a good chunk of my longer rides.

As I said above, if erg mode helps you get the hours in then that will always pay off over not doing the work. I just think erg mode is quite artificial and feels even less like riding a bike than a turbo in slope mode. Your power profile will never be the flat line you get in erg mode. It is natural to have peaks and dips and have to deal with them. Of course, the adaptation will come as you transition to the road after winter (if that ever ends) but my thinking is to make the gap as small as possible.

Properly built training sessions using erg mode will still run through a range of power zones depending on the aim of the training session, and if you want to just ride, then free riding in none erg mode is great. When you say turbo trainer i assume you mean smart trainers?

 

[AndyCr15]

I just think erg mode is quite artificial and feels even less like riding a bike than a turbo in slope mode. Your power profile will never be the flat line you get in erg mode.

But that's fine. It doesn't need to simulate outdoors, in fact as we've suggested, we don't want it to. Lifting weights is also very artificial, but it singles out muscles and helps you build something that you can then use in outdoor/real-world situations.

 

[Junglist]

It doesn't need to feel like riding a bike but as long as it makes me feel better when I do ride a bike outdoors, that's a win in my book.

Plus it has the benefit that I can suffer and grimace in the privacy of my shed and not in front of strangers.

 

[One More Solo]

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree before this thread gets totally derailed.

 

[fez]

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree before this thread gets totally derailed.

I dunno, it’s a pretty boring topic so a bit of an argument is a bit of excitement in my books

 

[Junglist]

I've been enjoying my turbo sessions so much more now I've stopped complicating things and just use the Kickr for both power and control. Though still using my pedals for cadence as it feels more accurate.

Feels like I'm progressing nicely now. Was doing a endurance ride on Monday which was targeting the same watts I was doing for a sweetspot interval workout back in November. Instead of holding the target watts for a few minutes at a time I was doing it for 15minutes with an almost 20bpm reduction in heart rate (though I am going to assume that is just fitness coming back rather than outright new gains)

 

[fez]

I've been enjoying my turbo sessions so much more now I've stopped complicating things and just use the Kickr for both power and control. Though still using my pedals for cadence as it feels more accurate.

Feels like I'm progressing nicely now. Was doing a endurance ride on Monday which was targeting the same watts I was doing for a sweetspot interval workout back in November. Instead of holding the target watts for a few minutes at a time I was doing it for 15minutes with an almost 20bpm reduction in heart rate (though I am going to assume that is just fitness coming back rather than outright new gains)

Its a great feeling when you can see clear and obvious progress. I'm doing my steady state at 2 intervals of 20 minutes tomorrow and that will be at 265w so I think my FTP of 270ish is broadly correct. A few months ago I would have struggled to do that at 240w.

Just need to make sure I don't get too addicted to the progress and forget to go outside!

 

[Junglist]

Its a great feeling when you can see clear and obvious progress. I'm doing my steady state at 2 intervals of 20 minutes tomorrow and that will be at 265w so I think my FTP of 270ish is broadly correct. A few months ago I would have struggled to do that at 240w.

Just need to make sure I don't get too addicted to the progress and forget to go outside!

Yep! Makes it feel like it's actually working because if I'm being honest I don't actually feel any fitter and was starting to think I was doing something wrong. It was only when I decided to look at some older workouts that I noticed that I'm doing more work efficiently than I was a few months back.

My partner bought me a framed picture for the shed that says "It never gets easier, you just get faster" and I suppose it really is true. Cause I still feel just as rubbish as I did when I started but I suppose I'm now just a little bit less rubbish

There was a ride I did back in October last year that really beat me up. It was the ride that made me decide to get Trainer Road because I felt awful on the bike and vowed I'd never feel like that again. Admittedly, I did zero riding in the 6 weeks leading up to that ride but I'm looking forward to trying it again soon to see how I cope with it now

 

[Vandle]

Yep! Makes it feel like it's actually working because if I'm being honest I don't actually feel any fitter and was starting to think I was doing something wrong. It was only when I decided to look at some older workouts that I noticed that I'm doing more work efficiently than I was a few months back.

My partner bought me a framed picture for the shed that says "It never gets easier, you just get faster" and I suppose it really is true. Cause I still feel just as rubbish as I did when I started but I suppose I'm now just a little bit less rubbish

There was a ride I did back in October last year that really beat me up. It was the ride that made me decide to get Trainer Road because I felt awful on the bike and vowed I'd never feel like that again. Admittedly, I did zero riding in the 6 weeks leading up to that ride but I'm looking forward to trying it again soon to see how I cope with it now

Classic Greg Lemond quote. I bought a custom made mat to go under my trainer, had that quote put on it.

 

[fez]

My partner bought me a framed picture for the shed that says "It never gets easier, you just get faster" and I suppose it really is true. Cause I still feel just as rubbish as I did when I started but I suppose I'm now just a little bit less rubbish

Yeah, I think that once you get the hang of pacing yourself and get that base level of fitness required to do whatever you want to do, all that happens is you get quicker. You think "this feels just as hard as before, FFS!" and then look and realise you have swiped 10 minutes off your previous best on a route.

 

[One More Solo]

…sometimes it even feels worse because you can push yourself harder than you could before.

 

[fez]

…sometimes it even feels worse because you can push yourself harder than you could before.

Its certainly a funny feeling sometimes. My legs feel that they are working hard but they aren't tiring at the rate they used to which means I can sustain that suffering for longer. Is that a win?

 

[Junglist]

Classic Greg Lemond quote. I bought a custom made mat to go under my trainer, had that quote put on it.

It's both encouraging and disheartening at the same time I saw a Eddy Merckx quote recently where I felt personally attacked. “Don’t buy upgrades, ride up grades.". Who bloody asked you, Eddy!?

Yeah, I think that once you get the hang of pacing yourself and get that base level of fitness required to do whatever you want to do, all that happens is you get quicker. You think "this feels just as hard as before, FFS!" and then look and realise you have swiped 10 minutes off your previous best on a route.

There's a nice little 30km route that I haven't really done in anger since our daughter was born. Really tempted to try it again soon and see if I can better my PB on the loop. Now I think about it. I don't think I've been out on any genuine rides where I've just wanted to get my head down and go fast in quite a while!

…sometimes it even feels worse because you can push yourself harder than you could before.

What is it about cycling that makes it enjoyable about being in the hurt locker? It's so hard to explain to people. On paper, i should hate climbing. I'm heavier than a 'climber' in the traditional sense and I'm slow up them so the suffering goes on for longer... I spend the whole time whining, cursing and trying to hype myself up the climb yet once I've reached the top and my heart has decided it wants to remain in my chest, I love the experience.

Do I just hate myself?

 

[robj20]

About 90% of my time on the trainer is Zone 2, but even then I'm spending time at 40rpm and up to 90rpm.
I don't mind doing the odd bit of high intensity stuff indoors but it's a lot easier to do that outdoors.
Plus I imagine for mountain biking only the actually turning the pedals is only part of the training I need compared to you guys on the road.

 

[UTmaniac]

Did my first ramp test for almost two years last night, on Zwift's Ven Top.

Felt quite strange from ~220W+, as I've done very little above this since March, due to some weird fatigue/legs/knees lurgy that just dragged on and on until mid April. Pleasantly surprised to manage a few seconds of the 320W interval considering, before my seated cadence dropped under 70rpm.

It was only when part way through it dawned on me I had forgotten to calibrate the H3 through the Saris app, think I last did it in March, but as temps are hardly tropical yet it gives a ballpark number... I suspect the 75% of best minute (223W) is a little high as ramp tests always have been for me, but it's a number to maybe monitor again, while it was a decent ~17min workout with a relatively low fatigue load of ~29.

 

[Syla5]

Just did Alp du Zwift for the first time... im so done.