AMD 64 4000+ vs AMD Opteron 180 4800 X2

[Blackstar_solar]

Hi,

I currently have an AMD 64 4000+ single core socket 939 CPU in a NF4 chipset mobo; dual core seems to be the way forward, however if I'm going to upgrade the CPU I can't really afford to do the mobo, ram etc as well.

I want to get the fastest CPU my board can support, in the AMD Athlon X2 939 range the 4800+ was the fastest, however, having been discontinued for nearly 2 years now I can't find any, even second hand.

I can, however, find AMD OPTERON 180 2.4GHz X2 DUAL CORE SOCKET 939 4800. I've heard of these CPUs but don't know anything about them. I think I can pick one up for about £100 but can anyone give me an idea if I'll get much a performance boast? Obviously I will from the dual coreness but other than that what do people think?

Mostly I use my PC for gaming...is this a worthwhile upgrade in that respect?

Thanks so much.

 

[Richdog]

Big boost from a single core 4000+, especially when overclocked. Get the Opteron.

 

[GeForce]

Massive performance boost in dual core apps/games and also in general multitasking.

The only snag is single core apps/games. You say it will be used for gaming and a lot of games currently are still single threaded. With both the 4000+ and the 180 at stock, the 180 will actually perform slightly worse in the game. This may be countered by the fact that the other core can handle background tasks. But overall, the difference will be almost unnoticeable.

For £100 thats a good deal. Being an Opty it will overclock well (I'm guesing you'll get around 2.8Ghz out of the 180) and has the Denmark/Toledo style 1mb L2 cache per core, which is the same as the 4000+.

If you're using the 4000+ on the stock HSF, bear in mind that won't be enough to cool the Opty. They run a lot warmer and so need better cooling.

What RAM are you running? As in, how much total memory and in how many sticks? If it's four sticks, you're going to also see a performance boost as I'm guessing that 4000+ is a San Diego E4 core, which has a problem with the onboard memory controller meaning it cannot run 4 sticks of RAM at DDR400. It drops them all to DDR333.

Whilst some of the dual core A64 series are E4s, the vast majority (probably including that Opty 180) are E6 revisions which don't have this memory controller issue. So your RAM will also be running quicker. As I said above though, this only applies if all four RAM slots on the motherboard are filled.

Jon

 

[Phil2008]

Cant wait untill I get my 185 also. Will there also be a drop in performance with me running single core stuff?? Im hopeing to overclock it a touch faster then my fx55 (2.78) to 2.8.

What temps shoud I expect cos I will be using the stock heatsink/fan? At the mo my idel temps for my fx55 clawhammer are in the low 30s.

 

[GeForce]

In single core apps the highest clocked CPU will usually perform best. The cache on the FX55 is the same as the 185, so that won't make a difference. If you can get the 185 clocked higher than your FX55, you'll see an increase in performance in anything you care to throw at it

You most probably won't be able to use the stock heatsink and fan from the FX55. The 185 will just run too hot for it. I tried using my 3700+'s stock HSF on my 4400+, but it just runs too warm.

My 3700+ was idling at 31C, whilst the 4400+ was idling at about 45C and hitting 60C+ on load. Too hot for my liking, so I switched to an AC Freezer Pro 64. Now idling at 28C

Jon

 

[Phil2008]

You most probably won't be able to use the stock heatsink and fan from the FX55. The 185 will just run too hot for it. I tried using my 3700+'s stock HSF on my 4400+, but it just runs too warm.

Jon

I ment I will be using the cooler that comes with the cpu, cos Im getting the retail version of the 185

 

[GeForce]

Ah right. Sorry, misunderstood you there! Yup that cooler will do nicely

Jon

 

[Blackstar_solar]

The only snag is single core apps/games. You say it will be used for gaming and a lot of games currently are still single threaded. With both the 4000+ and the 180 at stock, the 180 will actually perform slightly worse in the game. This may be countered by the fact that the other core can handle background tasks. But overall, the difference will be almost unnoticeable.

Hmmm this is interesting. The 4000+ runs its core @ 2.4GHz and the 180 runs each core @ 2.4GHz, shouldn't this mean that with the 2nd core taking care of background tasks the performance should at least be the same?

If you're using the 4000+ on the stock HSF, bear in mind that won't be enough to cool the Opty. They run a lot warmer and so need better cooling.

What would you recommend to run at stock and overclocking?

What RAM are you running?

I'm running 4x512MB DDR400. I've always wondered why it only ran at 333!

Simply put for £100 and the fact that mostly I play games, is the upgrade worth it?

 

[GeForce]

Hmmm this is interesting. The 4000+ runs its core @ 2.4GHz and the 180 runs each core @ 2.4GHz, shouldn't this mean that with the 2nd core taking care of background tasks the performance should at least be the same?

Firstly, let me clear up that the difference really is small. And it's to do with the Windows API moving the thread between cores. Basically if you run a single threaded app on a dual core system, you'll notice that both cores are running around 50%, rather than one core being at 100% and the other at 0%. This is the API moving the thread between cores to even out the load. And that creates a slight performance hit as information is exchanged over the CPU's internal bus.

You're right though, the other core is free to do background tasks, so it does make up for the difference. The difference will be a couple of FPS in games at most.

What would you recommend to run at stock and overclocking?

For stock running, the stock X2 cooler will be fine. Bear in mind the the stock X2 cooler is not the same as the stock single-core cooler. For overclocking, that depends on budget. I'm using the AC Freezer 64 Pro on my 4400+, works a treat. Other options are the Tuniq Tower 120 or the Thermalright SI-128.

I'm running 4x512MB DDR400. I've always wondered why it only ran at 333!

Now you know It's the E4 memory controller being annoying. All of them did it, was the only problem with the E4 revisions. They clocked much better (on air/water) than the later E6s.

Simply put for £100 and the fact that mostly I play games, is the upgrade worth it?

It really depends how long you want to keep the system for. If it's being upgraded (entire new system) in the next few months, then don't bother. If you want it to last about a year, go for the 3800+ X2. Not as good as the Opty 180, but will clock high and is dual core. If you're wanting the extra performance of the 180 over the 3800+, or want the system to last more than a year, go for the 180. New games are going to be multi-core capable, so a dual core (even a 3800+ X2 at stock speed) will provide a massive performance boost over your 4000+.

Also depends on how much you want to spend of course. Seriously consider the 3800+ X2 though, it really is a bargain for what you get for £40.

Jon

 

[ACESHIGH]

Hmmm this is interesting. The 4000+ runs its core @ 2.4GHz and the 180 runs each core @ 2.4GHz, shouldn't this mean that with the 2nd core taking care of background tasks the performance should at least be the same?

I would think even at stock on single core apps the Opty would be quicker.
As you say both have same clock frequencies & 1MB L2 cache.

Also if you have an early Clawhammer CG rev 4000+ , that is known to run marginally slower than a San Diego E4 rev CPU, so possibly slower again.

Edit: GeForce's info is helpfull, wasnt aware of that. Ill keep it in mind for future reference now.

Simply put for £100 and the fact that mostly I play games, is the upgrade worth it?

Very good upgrade imo.

 

[GeForce]

Also if you have an early Clawhammer CG rev 4000+ , that is known to run marginally slower than a San Diego E4 rev CPU, so possibly slower again.

I thought of that, but he says that his RAM is only running at DDR333. And the Clawhammer CGs were able to run four sticks at DDR400 without a problem. So his 4000+ is an E4 San Diego

Jon

 

[Phil2008]

I thought of that, but he says that his RAM is only running at DDR333. And the Clawhammer CGs were able to run four sticks at DDR400 without a problem. So his 4000+ is an E4 San Diego

Jon

Yeh I tried using all 4 mem slots up with my fX55,., and it knocked the FSB dowm to 166 and it would only boot on 2T

 

[GeForce]

Yeh I tried using all 4 mem slots up with my fX55,., and it knocked the FSB dowm to 166 and it would only boot on 2T

Ooh right, okay. I've never used a CG revision A64, so I didn't know that. I'd just never heard this mentioned before.

I stand corrected

Does it knock the FSB down or just the memory speed?

Jon

 

[Phil2008]

It knocked the fsb down, causing the cpu to run slower too

 

[GeForce]

Ah fair enough Learn something new everyday.

Well with the 180 you definitely won't have that problem

Jon

 

[Blackstar_solar]

Thanks for all the info GeForce.

I was thinking of getting this bad boy anyway as I'm pretty sure it will be quiter than my stock cooler.

I'm not really wanting to upgrade my computer for a couple of years, maybe a new graphics card at some point but certainly not for a year at least. I'm thinking the 180 will be a good purchase.

 

[GeForce]

Definitely. That 180 will last you at least a year The AC Freezer 64 Pro will do you very well as well.

Let us know how it goes installing and overclocking

Jon

 

[Phil2008]

Im also considering buying my 1gb mem back too, But I need to be sure with filling all 4 slots up, I will still be able to oc my 185 to 2.8gnz on 1T.. Then if I can get 3gb of mem in it, it sud last longer then a yr

 

[GeForce]

You can't be certain that it will still run on 1T. Filling all four slots puts more load on the onboard memory controller, so it may be that you have to relax timings or drop to 2T.

I reckon you should be OK to run on fairly tight timings at 1T, based on the knowledge that the E6 memory controller is actually quite good. But as I said, no guarantees

Jon

 

[Blackstar_solar]

I've just noticed that my mobo will run an opteron 185, whats the technical, realistic and cost difference between the 185 and the 180?