Mclaren might be in the poo big time [ANCIENT THREAD REVIVAL]

Glaucus · 13 Sep 2007 at 19:03

hominid said:
They benefitted because they knew where Ferrari were cheating at the beginning of the year. Coughlan was told by Stepney the way the ferrari floor flexed up at speed, thus an illegal device.

But apart from that I can't see any other evidence. I like to see with a lot of you guys what evidence they thought was strong enough to impose that sanction.

Ferrari should have got more punishment for that, but if this is true,

For those saying the drivers should be out, why should there drivers be punished, the car did not benefit.

knip · 13 Sep 2007 at 19:03

What did they just say about next year???? :eek:

No points either?
Oh please God no!!!

Emlyn_Dewar · 13 Sep 2007 at 19:03

My new question...
What's Joe "Casual Viewer" Public going to think about this?
Will they just not care and clap their hands together like some idiot because they can watch the hollow WDC for this year or will they switch off and realise they've been conned?

Emlyn_Dewar · 13 Sep 2007 at 19:04

knip said:
What did they just say about next year????

I'm away from TV now, what did they say!!!!!!???/

knip · 13 Sep 2007 at 19:04

Emlyn_Dewar said:
I'm away from TV now, what did they say!!!!!!???/

Im pretty sure they just said no points for next year either!!!!

Mp4 · 13 Sep 2007 at 19:05

knip said:
What did they just say about next year????
No points either?
Oh please God no!!!

McLaren will also have to present its 2008 car for examination by the FIA before the start of next season.

Bennah · 13 Sep 2007 at 19:05

Thats a bit harsh is it, banned from this seasons constructors championship and the huge fine. Bad day for F1 indeed. Its good to see the drivers championship not effected. We have a great title race on and long may it contiune. Would be a total disaster if they hit the McLaren drivers with points deducations.

I hope that thier 2008 car passes what ever tests the FIA are going to throw at it and it gets acepted for the 2008 season. I cant see why not anyway.

spaz · 13 Sep 2007 at 19:05

So who will independantly verify the car, surely that would mean Ferrari having to give up tech info to see if the cars match, or the independant team saying to Ferrari "oh do you have this rather nice wing design? mclaren do!"

Mp4 · 13 Sep 2007 at 19:06

Tbh im glad the drivers can still drive but constructors for me is more important for the team & i think we will see a re run in 2008 :/

knip · 13 Sep 2007 at 19:06

“The WMSC will receive a full technical report on the 2008 McLaren car and will take a decision at its December 2007 meeting as to what sanction, if any, will be imposed on the team for the 2008 season,” read the statement.

Type_R · 13 Sep 2007 at 19:06

Emlyn_Dewar said:
Can you show me all the evidence you have to back up your allegations?
Until we see the whole story (which we probably never will) then this whoe thing just reeks of FIA/Ferrari BS.

So your evidence that they didnt cheat is that 'it reeks of FIA/Ferrari'

My evidence is, Mclaren have not denied being in possession with a confidential 780 page document belonging to Ferrari relating to the workings of the 2007 Ferrari F1 car. Also to re-point out that knowing about the flexi wings and moving ferrari floor was a major advantage for mclaren. If they hadn't been found out, banned then monza would have seen the ferraris about 15 km/h faster down the straights - go figure.

Mclaren knowingly or not did cheat, whether you like it or not

knip · 13 Sep 2007 at 19:07

Stirling Moss on now condeming it as well.
And saying what a decent bloke Ron Dennis is, the other two were the crooks in his opinion.

Fire 1 · 13 Sep 2007 at 19:10

NathanE said:
I hope Ferrari are happy now... ******* cheating *****.

No. That would be McLaren.

Slam62 said:
Still macs might get their Hungary points back

Why would they when they have lost all constructors points? The drivers still got theirs.

I wonder if Alonso and Hamilton will still fight for the drivers championship so that if they "win" the drivers title they are known for history as they could only won it by cheating?

I can't wait to hear McLarens statement regaring this as the previous statements have been a joke in this saga, first saying that it was only one employee, then it emerged that more than one employee knew and it was employees who were pretty high up.

I would also like to know if the press and everybody else reaction would the same if the roles were reversed

This also sets a dangerous precendent. Whats to stop it happening again with a lower end team spying and being able to win a drivers championship with an illeagal car :confused:

The FIA MUST release the evidence they have so that everyone can see how McLaren have benefited.

hominid · 13 Sep 2007 at 19:10

NathanE said:
2. How do McLaren even know if something belongs to Ferrari? Technically (and I believe) they shouldn't/wouldn't know.

I think, by this statement, Ferrari need to provide McLaren a dossier of information relating to their 2008 car so that they don't copy it..

As you say, it's a ******* joke of a stipulation. the FIA and Max Mosely have just showed themselves to be the bias manipulative bunch of retards that they are.

If you look back at all of the spying cases in recent memory most, if not all, the wronged party is Ferrari - that alone I find interesting. Also all of the decisions reguarding tyres wnet for Ferrari, from changing the specifications when Michelin had the upper hand to going to a sole tyre supplier - that just happened to be Bridgestone when the split was something like 8teams - 2 on Michelins. All of that, I feel, was concocted to purposefully Ferrari a supposed advantage, as the other teams only on this tyre for the first year, and then Ferrari would have had an easy run of it. Come Australia this didn't happen and all of this spy stuff started to develope - Coincidences or something more sinister?

Slam62 · 13 Sep 2007 at 19:11

Wicksta said:
If they clear it, will you learn to spell it

Oh sorry is something on with the other Mclaren team

Emlyn_Dewar · 13 Sep 2007 at 19:11

Mp4 said:
Tbh im glad the drivers can still drive but constructors for me is more important for the team & i think we will see a re run in 2008 :/

But why? It's now just a filthy hollow meaningless table, especially if a Mclaren driver wins it.
That's what I can't understand about this, they can't have one and not the other. The drivers benefited from cheating, if cheating did indeed take place, surely that's just unfair on everyone else?

(just so everyone is aware, I do not support this points deduction and think the penalty is ridiculous, I'm merely stating the obvious)

Mp4 · 13 Sep 2007 at 19:12

Fire 1 said:
No. That would be McLaren.

FERRARI

Emlyn_Dewar said:
But why? It's now just a filthy hollow meaningless table, especially if a Mclaren driver wins it.
That's what I can't understand about this, they can't have one and not the other. The drivers benefited from cheating, if cheating did indeed take place, surely that's just unfair on everyone else?

(just so everyone is aware, I do not support this points deduction and think the penalty is ridiculous, I'm merely stating the obvious)

Just the way i feel atm , dont get me wrong im glad if Lewis or Alonso wins! but having a driver + constructors is something else!

el_dazza · 13 Sep 2007 at 19:12

knip said:
Stirling Moss on now condeming it as well.
And saying what a decent bloke Ron Dennis is, the other two were the crooks in his opinion.

Him + Jackie Stewart have got to say that, Mclaren are a british team and they're both british.

lordrobs · 13 Sep 2007 at 19:13

ONE HUNDRED MIIIIIILION DOLLARS

Damn, be interesting to see what becomes of McLaren.

NathanE · 13 Sep 2007 at 19:15

Type_R said:
So your evidence that they didnt cheat is that 'it reeks of FIA/Ferrari'

My evidence is, Mclaren have not denied being in possession with a confidential 780 page document belonging to Ferrari relating to the workings of the 2007 Ferrari F1 car. Also to re-point out that knowing about the flexi wings and moving ferrari floor was a major advantage for mclaren. If they hadn't been found out, banned then monza would have seen the ferraris about 15 km/h faster down the straights - go figure.

Mclaren knowingly or not did cheat, whether you like it or not

Given Ferrari's utterly dire reliability this season it's not unreasonable to think that McLaren would have won regardless of any (alleged) cheating.

The flexible floor was also an illegal feature of the F2007 car was it not?