Mclaren might be in the poo big time [ANCIENT THREAD REVIVAL]

Emlyn_Dewar · 13 Sep 2007 at 20:38

The FIA said the motor sport council would receive a full technical report on the 2008 McLaren and will decide in December this year whether to impose any further sanction.

Seems a bit blanket... Hmm, we don't like this design, punishment for you!
I assume it's just if it is found to contain Ferrari "inspiration"?

Bennah · 13 Sep 2007 at 20:40

No idea. Maybe because its 'Ferrari', they have a larger power? I dont know.

To me though, with it being all over the media, its just been blown into a huge statment.

mmj_uk · 13 Sep 2007 at 20:41

The FIA said the motor sport council would receive a full technical report on the 2008 McLaren and will decide in December this year whether to impose any further sanction should the car be any threat to Ferrari's title.

Arc · 13 Sep 2007 at 20:43

Arc said:
inflammatory spam removed

Importantly though: Spa is this weekend, McLaren will be there fighting with Ferrari, nothing changes really. To the average armchair fan, the on track procession *cough* racing will not change with this decision.

I'd like to know why that was removed, is it because I went against the grain in this thread? :rolleyes:

Suppose it's the first post I've had "moderated", not bad for >7 years posting here......

Ah well, I can see why Flibster gave up the F1 threads as some of the opinions in here are getting a little extreme.

AcidHell2 said:
Oh and the average age in here is a lot higher than 15.

I am well aware of that but the general opinions coming across don't convey that at all

.

McLaren have been caught cheating and have been punished. Everyone gets punished, even, shock horror, Schumacher when he was with Ferrari and on numerous occasions to (hitting JV and Monaco qual 06 are the two that spring to mind). The FIA arent as biased as people think.

JRS · 13 Sep 2007 at 20:43

mmj_uk said:

If they go the same period of time they they did last time around without a drivers title (i.e '79 to '00) as opposed to just three (likely four) years, then jokes like that might actually ring the Bell Of Truth™.

Until then....

lordrobs · 13 Sep 2007 at 20:48

gord said:
hehe.. http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=10086006&postcount=213.. i smite you with my speed and might.. and better quality image..

Damn missed that

NathanE · 13 Sep 2007 at 20:57

Arc said:
I'd like to know why that was removed, is it because I went against the grain in this thread? Suppose it's the first post I've had "moderated", not bad for >7 years posting here......

Ah well, I can see why Flibster gave up the F1 threads as some of the opinions in here are getting a little extreme.

It was removed because you were making childish comments about the ages of people in this thread.

Glaucus · 13 Sep 2007 at 21:01

JRS said:
And I'll refer you to my example. In 1984, Tyrrell were found to have been putting lead in their fuel tank. Didn't noticeably improve the performance of the car (they were running N/A Cossies against turbo engined teams, think on), the drivers had nothing to do with it, but they still lost all their results and points for that season AND were banned from the final three races.

.

Thats not the same at all, they altered there car in an illegal fashion, probbaly giving them an advantage, otherwise why do it.

knip · 13 Sep 2007 at 21:01

Sky news is reporting

They have also been barred from taking part in next year's constructors' championship.

I havent read that anywhere else, is that true?

Glaucus · 13 Sep 2007 at 21:02

Arc said:
McLaren have been caught cheating and have been punished. Everyone gets punished, even, shock horror, Schumacher when he was with Ferrari and on numerous occasions to (hitting JV and Monaco qual 06 are the two that spring to mind). The FIA arent as biased as people think.

The problem isn't the punishment, it's the severity of the punishment, for what appears to be little all though sever cheating. A cheating that did not give them advantage. All though that will be confirmed or busted tomorrow.

JRS · 13 Sep 2007 at 21:11

AcidHell2 said:
Thats not the same at all, they altered there car in an illegal fashion, probbaly giving them an advantage, otherwise why do it.

Given that they only scored 13 points before getting banned....yeah. Sure. Some advantage.

They did it because they didn't have a turbo engine, and wanted to try and get some power back. So they added water injection to the car (allegedly). They also added lead shot to this tank to increase the weight (allegedly). The FIA claimed that they were adding the lead shot during the races, running part of those races underweight. This was never proven. Thing was - Tyrrell were the sole non-turbo runner who was actually doing anything worth a damn. Arrows were the other Cosworth team, and were doing sod all results-wise (think Spirit might have run a Cossie powered car at some point that year as well). Funny how the sole N/A team who was actually doing alright got hounded out of that year, huh?

Like I said. McLaren probably got lucky today. The FIA have done far worse to teams for less in the past.

dan^uk · 13 Sep 2007 at 21:13

Press Conference: http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/sol/newsid_6990000/newsid_6994100/6994138.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&news=1

NicktheNorse · 13 Sep 2007 at 21:14

knip said:
I havent read that anywhere else, is that true?

No, they must have got that wrong.

Glaucus · 13 Sep 2007 at 21:20

JRS said:
Given that they only scored 13 points before getting banned....yeah. Sure. Some advantage.

Points do not = advantage. If the brick was removed they might of ran 100th slower a lap, thus a advantage was gained, regardless of place or points

JRS said:
They did it because they didn't have a turbo engine, and wanted to try and get some power back. So they added water injection to the car (allegedly). They also added lead shot to this tank to increase the weight (allegedly). The FIA claimed that they were adding the lead shot during the races, running part of those races underweight. This was never proven. Thing was - Tyrrell were the sole non-turbo runner who was actually doing anything worth a damn. Arrows were the other Cosworth team, and were doing sod all results-wise (think Spirit might have run a Cossie powered car at some point that year as well). Funny how the sole N/A team who was actually doing alright got hounded out of that year, huh?

How it similar in any way?
one modified there car in an illegal way, the other obtained a document and didn't follow the correct procedures for handing it over.

JRS said:
Like I said. McLaren probably got lucky today. The FIA have done far worse to teams for less in the past.

Biggest fine, constructorship ban, for essentially not following a procedure. Nope I think this is the harshest punishment in f1 history ever.

JRS · 13 Sep 2007 at 21:25

Ah. I'm a bit slow tonight, and just twigged why the ruling ended up how it did.

“However, due to the exceptional circumstances in which the FIA gave the team’s drivers an immunity in return for providing evidence, there is no penalty in regard to drivers’ points."

So, to get the evidence to 'convict' McLaren, the FIA had to let the drivers get off scot free. Nicely done, that. Means we retain the very likely possibility of two outcomes:

1) Alonso gets his third title, putting him on the same hallowed turf as Jackie Stewart, Niki Lauda, Nelson Piquet and the great Ayrton Senna.
2) Lewis Hamilton wins the title in his first year, thus sending the press into a frenzy the likes of which has never been seen before.

***edit***

AcidHell2 said:
How it similar in any way?

Don't misunderstand me - I'm not denying that the circumstances were very different. All I'm saying is that today could have gone a lot worse for McLaren had the FIA not made that deal with the drivers.

They 'convicted' Tyrrell in '84 on very little evidence (in fact, almost none whatsoever), and have probably 'convicted' McLaren today in a similar manner - guess we'll find out soon enough about that, mind. But given that they DQ'd, banned Tyrrell in '84 and DQ'd, banned BAR in '05 for supposed technical infringements that almost certainly gave no performance advantage at all, yet didn't extend the same courtesy to McLaren for a) gaining posession of Ferrari tech data and b) apparently lying or witholding info from the last court meeting....

ZG002 · 13 Sep 2007 at 21:45

Do you think the McLaren team are going to give their all for the drivers to win? as its got to be glum in that camp at the moment.. moral will be ssooo low..

What do you lot think?

Glaucus · 13 Sep 2007 at 21:47

ZG002 said:
Do you think the McLaren team are going to give their all for the drivers to win? as its got to be glum in that camp at the moment.. moral will be ssooo low..

What do you lot think?

Hell yes, they will do everything they can to win. rub it in everyones faces when they do.

Mikey · 13 Sep 2007 at 21:54

barnettgs said:
It is not going to look good for formula 1, isn't it?

With the punishments like that, McLaren may as well pulling out of racing, that would jeopardise the future of formula 1...

Time to divert to racing in other classes.. Wonder how this will affect the prodrive entry.

I'd love to see Mclaren return to Le Mans/ALMS

FIA would be running scared if Maclaren pulled out. If they weren't contesting for the drivers championship I'd pull out of the rest of the year

ZG002 · 13 Sep 2007 at 21:58

Havnt Mclaren just split from mercedes? What will all this mean for the rest of Mclaren?

JRS · 13 Sep 2007 at 22:02

Mikey said:
FIA would be running scared if Maclaren pulled out.

Go on then, I'll bite. Why? Why would the FIA honestly give a nobbing toss?

As I said earlier, F1 has survived the loss of a lot of big names. Some even bigger than McLaren IMO. What would possibly scare the FIA about McLaren getting all pissy and flouncing off into the wide blue yonder?