Mclaren might be in the poo big time [ANCIENT THREAD REVIVAL]

Some of you guys need to take off the grey tinted specs and that McLaren were let off lightly if what was posted about Bernie saying that they were going to be banned for two years is ture.

Anyway, can we now get back to talking about the gp this weekend?
 
Mr Men said:
I doubt data from May would be still helping Alonso at Monza, F1 moves way too quick for that, the Ferrari data probably helped him at the start of the season especially with the tyres, and his setups were passed to Lewis who benefited to indirectly....
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Wasn't that one of Alonso's gripes about the team, that Lewis got his setup as a baseline to work with rather than starting from scratch. Bit rich from someone using another teams set-up :p
 
MTA99 said:
Wasn't that one of Alonso's gripes about the team, that Lewis got his setup as a baseline to work with rather than starting from scratch. Bit rich from someone using another teams set-up :p
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Yeah true :) and his comment he brought 6 tenths to Mclaren probably got from emails with Pedro and co :p
 
There's an awesome picture on SniffPetrol but its got far too much adult language to repost here. If you're a grown up and aren't offended by sexual swearing google will get you there.
 
NathanE said:
It makes for some pretty shocking reading but I'm even more certain now of Ron's stance of this. McLaren as a whole had nothing to do with this. It was all the doing of some individual employees (at both teams).
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I don't think that was ever in doubt, was it? It was perfectly clear to all involved that this wasn't really a sanctioned attempt at getting hold of Ferrari tech data by McLaren.

But at the end of the day....they had it, they used it. Or at least, some of the team members used it. Once that happened, and they didn't make any real attempt to cover their tracks, it was game over.

I still say the punishment isn't too severe. Any team that hires morons who can't cover up a simple industrial espionage deal deserves everything they get.

NathanE said:
I really don't see now at all why the FIA have punished McLaren. They should have banned all those employees (including Alonso) from motorsport for 10 years. For starters they have left Ferrari (by their logic of punishing the teams and not individuals anyway) unpunished. Why is it only the people on the receiving end that get punished? Surely the people LEAKING the information should get an even greater punishment?
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I'm sure the Italian legal system will see to Stepney. He handed over Ferrari info to their main rival....they'll stick him in jail and throw away the key ;)

NathanE said:
I really feel for RD. He tried his absolute best to make the truth come clear but the FIA has simply spat it back in his face and put Ferrari-spin on the whole situation. As RD said yesterday it has damaged McLaren's reputation and if that is what the FIA wanted to do then they have succeeded.
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And once again, we have the tired old whinge that the FIA are in cahoots with Ferrari. Is it not time that record was changed?

Funny how despite this alleged pro-Ferrari bias, the a number of the last few major rule changes have actually hobbled Ferrari somewhat. The change to narrow track cars and grooved tyres in '98 threw them a nasty curveball, with McLaren proving fairly dominant for most of the season. The rule changes for '03 (one lap qually, one type of wet tyre per race, points system change) took Schumacher from winning by 67 points with 6 races left to winning by 2 points at the final round. The '05 changes in tyre rules and aero resulted in a dire season with one (extremely hollow) victory to their name.

NathanE said:
Alonso received all this information. It baffles the mind why he has gone completely unpunished. He, potentially, won Monza due to his knowledge. It would certainly explain his dominance over everybody else including Hamilton his team mate that weekend.

*Clap clap clap* ******* FIA.
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They're a bit stuck now. Having offered him amnesty, they can't really take it away now without making themselves look even more foolish (as if such a thing could be possible....).
 
It looks like a few individuals are the ones that used/acquired this information and they get off without any punishment and a team the (most likely) has nothing to do with it and wanted to stop it loses all the points and gets fined 100 million

Are they taking the **** or what :confused:

And why didn't McLaren fire Alonso and De La Rosa or fire them now?
 
JRS said:
I suspect they aren't firing Alonso because he has a very real chance of winning the drivers title....:)
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Not anymore. *All* of McLaren will be behind Lewis now. Alonso is history after what he has done to the team.

To be honest I'm surprised they haven't sacked him on the spot and bounced any outstanding pay cheques. Traitor.
 
NathanE said:
Not anymore. *All* of McLaren will be behind Lewis now. Alonso is history after what he has done to the team.

To be honest I'm surprised they haven't sacked him on the spot and bounced any outstanding pay cheques. Traitor.
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Here bloody here! I knew there was a reason I didnt like him, and now I know.
 
SDK^ said:
:rolleyes: Are you trolling !?!? You can't prove anything - just another armchair keyboard warrior :rolleyes:

An F1 car takes longer than a month to put together (Spygate started in March 07) and some of the data that McLaren had from Ferrari didn't work with their car anyway.
You can't just bolt on pieces from a winning car and go from a mid table team to Championship leading team.

Ferrari have gone backwards because most of their 'dream team' have left.
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It's pointlless when you have a Mclaren sig and you being a fan of the team so everything which is true you will disagree:rolleyes:

Just enjoy that drivers crown deep down you know the team cheated, and it's fine you stick up for them they need your support:rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
Electrical fault for Alonso this weekend perhaps? Or maybe a botched pit stop? ;) I doubt any McLaren-Mercedes share holder would object given what he has done to their brand names.
 
NathanE said:
Not anymore. *All* of McLaren will be behind Lewis now. Alonso is history after what he has done to the team.
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Bull. He might not last very long after this season is over, but I'm sure they'll keep him until either he wins the title or is mathematically ruled out of doing so (which would probably only happen if Lewis wins it).

NathanE said:
To be honest I'm surprised they haven't sacked him on the spot and bounced any outstanding pay cheques. Traitor.
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"Traitor"?

Let me get this one straight. It's okay that he apparently had access to the data that Mike Coughlan got off Nigel Stepney, despite McLaren protesting that only Coughlan had read the dossier. We're all fine with that. But the fact that he co-operated with the FIA/WMSC investigation into that, effectively dropping McLaren in the ****.....hoo boy. That's treasonous.

That about the size of it?

***edit***

God....it's come to this. Me, sort-of defending Alonso. Proof, if it was needed, that this saga has just gotten a bit too silly.
 
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Face facts, in recent history Ferrari have done absolutely FA without Schumacher (slightly more sporting than Alonso)

I would be surprised if Ferrari ever win a WDC again without a Schumacher.
 
Slam62 said:
Face facts, in recent history Ferrari have done absolutely FA without Schumacher (slightly more sporting than Alonso)
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What, other than win six races this year?

Slam62 said:
I would be surprised if Ferrari ever win a WDC again without a Schumacher.
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Yes, because of course Ferrari never won a WDC before Schumacher joined the fold.

Except when Jody Scheckter drove for them.

And Niki Lauda.

And John Surtees.

And Phil Hill.

And Mike Hawthorn.

And Juan Fangio.

And Alberto Ascari.

;)
 
JRS said:
What, other than win six races this year?



Yes, because of course Ferrari never won a WDC before Schumacher joined the fold.

Except when Jody Scheckter drove for them.

And Niki Lauda.

And John Surtees.

And Phil Hill.

And Mike Hawthorn.

And Juan Fangio.

And Alberto Ascari.

;)
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Excuse me but when exactly did Mr Jody Scheckter scrape his championship, oh yes 1979. Lets see 28 years ago:eek: not what I mean by recent history.

Ferrari have won races this year as a legacy of the Schumacher years but it will fade :D

This could well be the dying embers of an era
 
JRS said:
Bull. He might not last very long after this season is over, but I'm sure they'll keep him until either he wins the title or is mathematically ruled out of doing so (which would probably only happen if Lewis wins it).



"Traitor"?

Let me get this one straight. It's okay that he apparently had access to the data that Mike Coughlan got off Nigel Stepney, despite McLaren protesting that only Coughlan had read the dossier. We're all fine with that. But the fact that he co-operated with the FIA/WMSC investigation into that, effectively dropping McLaren in the ****.....hoo boy. That's treasonous.

That about the size of it?

***edit***

God....it's come to this. Me, sort-of defending Alonso. Proof, if it was needed, that this saga has just gotten a bit too silly.
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I can't work it out - are you playing the devil's advocate or do you really believe this?

Yes it is silly. Defending Alonso who clearly has broken the rules far more than McLaren as a whole ever have is just silly.

McLaren only found out about these e-mails a couple races ago - hence why McLaren's first stance on the matter was that it was only Coughlan and Stepney involved. Further proof that McLaren had no direct involvement or knowledge of what was going on in their employee's own time.
 
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