They have not even sacked Coughlan yet, so no surprise Alonso ain't been asked to leave, but your right, if they did sack all those involved it would certainly leave a less bitter taste in the mouth and McLaren could well come out of it looking not too bad, that is off course if these are the only ones involved which seems a bit unlikely.
Mclaren might be in the poo big time [ANCIENT THREAD REVIVAL]
- Thread starter EddScott
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They have not even sacked Coughlan yet, so no surprise Alonso ain't been asked to leave, but your right, if they did sack all those involved it would certainly leave a less bitter taste in the mouth and McLaren could well come out of it looking not too bad, that is off course if these are the only ones involved which seems a bit unlikely.
This thread is akin to bashing your head against a brick wall.
All i feel sorry for now are the innocents at McLaren. The chaps who have been literally back stabbed by the few colleagues who involved themselves in such underhand play. Them and Hamilton, who sits at the top of the pile in his rookie season just wanting to win a Championship while the ship he is sailing on crumbles all around him.
These are strange times. I eagerly anticipate qualifying tomorrow!
All i feel sorry for now are the innocents at McLaren. The chaps who have been literally back stabbed by the few colleagues who involved themselves in such underhand play. Them and Hamilton, who sits at the top of the pile in his rookie season just wanting to win a Championship while the ship he is sailing on crumbles all around him.
These are strange times. I eagerly anticipate qualifying tomorrow!
I hope they both dont, they are both driving a car that has been used for cheating. If hamilton wins he has done it by cheating.
Just the same accusations that have always been levelled at Schumacher when he drove a car with a car that stepped over the line.
Rubbish. There is no proof whatsoever that any Ferrari technical information was used to improve McLaren's car. Stop claiming otherwise.
It doesnt matter, they had the means to cheat in their hands and never did squat about it. They never reported having the data/report and members of the team were using ferrari information. It doesnt matter that they didnt build the car from ferrari blueprints. Knowing fuel levels and strategy is more important to mclaren.
They learned many important details of the ferrari car. Funny how mclaren sought confirmation of the ferrari floor early this season after getting the report. For the record the ferrari floor was not as has been mentioned in this thread Illegal. It was perfectly legal as it passed the test, but the rule clarification then made it illegal. BMW also used the same floor but no one seems to remember that. Renaults mass damper was also legal until rule clarification. Same thing with Mclarens michelins a few years ago.
They had the means to cheat. You may say thats not enough but then your forgetting Honda. Honda were never proved to have cheated either, they had a sump tank within the tank that gave them the ability to cheat. They proved that they at no time could have run underweight but where banned for two races for having the ability to cheat. It was the first time ever that the cars where tilted to pump them dry.
If I was Honda I would be asking how then their drivers were punished for the teams error and mclarens havent been.
Mclaren cheated. What makes me laugh most about this whole thread is all the people calling it as BS and unjust before they had even heard what evidence was presented at the hearing.
How did any of you make that call without being at the hearing?
Bias?
I think Mclaren got off lightly as Max did say after the Honda case, any team caught cheating would be banned for two years.
What a load of tripe.
I would expect this thread if it was discussing something like football, but I can't believe there are the same kind of un-informed "fan boys" calling themselves F1 fans.
What he says is not far from the truth, McLaren had the data to cheat, they probably mocked up some Ferrari designed parts to test them out, realised they would not work with their car and binned it, De La Rosa sounds likely to have tested Ferrari setups in the simulator, its a bit like a game of poker but the opposition knows your hand. The tyre data was probably crucial, look at Renault having to struggle with the Bridgestone's they do not have the data to get it right as McLaren did, remember when McLaren went to Michelin, it took them forever to get the car to use them right, in fact Williams even gave them info on how to get it right something Sir Frank regretted when Dennis swiped JPM from us. Also remember Flavio saying how he would love to know Ferrari's weight distribution its a crucial part of the car, well guess who did know that, oh yeah McLaren.
Had it been Ferrari in McLaren's position then F1 would be in uproar they never got banned, the fact is F1 is a business now, Lewis is selling tickets and bringing in viewers, thats why they kept their points, had this been Honda or dare I say it Williams then it would be a banning offence. To be fair this season is now a face, the stench of cheating will hang over whoever wins the title and no Ferrari fans want a hollow constructor's title. There was a great article printed today will try and find it but basically said this whole thing could have been avoided if McLaren went to Ferrari the minute they knew data was coming in, because they did know, but all the time they played it quiet, in fact Ron Dennis even went to Ferrari to try and offer a truce to their rivalry to try and make relations better all the time knowing a mole at Ferrari was feeding them info.
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Un informed, actually read through the other threads, I was informed enough to know they would get punished and to what extent they had been cheating.
How can you say he hasnt driven a car that has been cheating?
The team have rightly been pulled up for cheating, they have gained an advantage by having the data of another team. Therefore lewis through the course of the season has had an unfair advantage.
He hasnt knowingly cheated but the team has, so his points should have gone.
So if Ferrari build an illegal car next year that gives them 2 seconds over all the rest. Kimi and massa romp every race. 2 races from the end the cheat is found and they dock the teams points. Kimi is still allowed to win the title. Would you say thats fair?
Get a grip will you? The team as a whole didn't know anything about this, it was only Coughlin, De La Rosa and Alonso, unbeknown to the rest of the team, let alone the management.
That was a separate issue, prior to the dossier of files being passed to Coughlin and something of which McLaren management were aware and reported to the FIA.
"They" is three individuals, not the McLaren team as a whole. The difference is critical.
No proof of this whatsoever.
Exactly, gaining information on just the braking system alone can save the team from a poorer season. Remember how Villeneuve struggled with the sauber braking system which was similar electronically to ferrari. Then the following year when BMW joined they reverted to a williams type set up and the problems went away.
Having this information at their finger tips would give them a wealth of information to try stuff on the fly with less developement work of their own.
If this scandel involved MS and benetton/ferrari the same people crying now would be screaming cheat.
Err, maybe because there's no proof?
Why don't you actually try reading the FIA press releases rather than spouting rubbish? At no point does it say that there was conclusive evidence that any Ferrari information had been used to benefit the car, merely that it had been in the possession of three employees, Hamilton not amongst them.
Why should Hamilton's championship be harmed when there's no evidence that his car benefitted from Ferrari information nor that he personally was privvy to any such information?
You laughably talk about bias yet you seem to be the one on a crusade against Hamilton without any evidence to incriminate him or the car he drives.
Actually earlier on in this saga other team members spoke about being shown the information and telling him to get rid of it.
No it isnt, it doesnt matter if it's 1 or 500 employees. Its the boss thats responsible for each and everyone of his employees. As harsh as it maybe it's his problem if members of his team are using ferrari data.
That is cheating, is it not?
LOL are you kidding? McLaren produced clear technical drawings of the floor, after one race, you tell me how McLaren got that info when the floor only moved at 160MPH. Stepney emailed the info to Coughlan.
Senior management knew about the data, they told him to destroy it, off course he thought to photocopy it first
So your saying that they weren't in possesion then of another teams IP?
That knowing when a driver is going to pit is not of interest and benefit to mclaren. Knowing details of their brakes and tyre usage is not of benefit to mclaren?
Of course it is. Its also cheating.
I have no bias against hamilton, I want alonso thrown out too. I just used hamilton because thats what the world and his wife seems so happy about him keeping his points. Despite the fact he's driving in a team found guilty of cheating.
The only real problem I have is why did Toyota get away without FIA punishment for stealing the F2002 designs, and actually ran a car in 2003 built from stolen blueprints, the 4 people caught for that are in jail, where Stepney and co will be soon enough but they never had any FIA punishment.
Exactly, Ferrari apparently have been using the floor like that for 3 years. Yet all of a sudden Mclaren seek clarification on something that moves a tiny amount at highspeed.
I agree totally, I've always enjoyed talking to and reading Mike Lawerences pieces on that very matter.