Mclaren might be in the poo big time [ANCIENT THREAD REVIVAL]

Slam62 said:
Excuse me but when exactly did Mr Jody Scheckter scrape his championship, oh yes 1979. Lets see 28 years ago:eek: not what I mean by recent history.
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Alright, so you want more recent than that. Alain Prost in 1990 - the only reason he didn't take that title was that Senna decided to emulate the kamikaze pilots of WW2 and not bother braking for Turn 1. That's only six years before Schumacher joined the team.

Slam62 said:
Ferrari have won races this year as a legacy of the Schumacher years but it will fade :D

This could well be the dying embers of an era
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Of course it will fade. And some time after it fades Ferrari will rise up again - either they'll get another driver who will come in and revive the team (a la Schumacher), or a rule change will come in and they'll get it exactly right (a la 1961), or they'll get a bit of luck float their way (a la Surtees in '64).

No team stays right at the top forever.
 
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JRS said:
Alain Prost in 1990 - the only reason he didn't take that title was that Senna decided to emulate the kamikaze pilots of WW2 and not bother braking for Turn 1.
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That's a pretty ******* sick way to talk about someone. You're implying he committed suicide.

You're an edgy character aren't you? :confused::o
 
NathanE said:
I can't work it out - are you playing the devil's advocate or do you really believe this?
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Mostly playing DA to be honest. Though you should probably read again what I wrote there. Actually, I'll re-write it a bit clearer.

You said that Alonso is a traitor for dropping McLaren in the **** at this hearing. You seemed to be implying that this was worse than his actual 'crime' - that he had access to the Ferrari tech data that Coughlan obtained. I take issue with that. I still think that he was completely wrong for doing what he did, I'm just slightly amused by the fact that a lot of people seem rather more angry that he ratted out McLaren than the fact that he (effectively) possibly cheated.
 
JRS said:
Alright, so you want more recent than that. Alain Prost in 1990 - the only reason he didn't take that title was that Senna decided to emulate the kamikaze pilots of WW2 and not bother braking for Turn 1. That's only six years before Schumacher joined the team.



Of course it will fade. And some time after it fades Ferrari will rise up again - either they'll get another driver who will come in and revive the team (a la Schumacher), or a rule change will come in and they'll get it exactly right (a la 1961), or they'll get a bit of luck float their way (a la Surtees in '64).

No team stays right at the top forever.
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Slightly biased view

Senna could do it because he was ahead in the points

But lets remind ourselves of why Senna did it.

Oh yes the FIA fiddled a judgement the year before to suit the then Chairman Monsieur Balestre

Senna crashed into Prost at the Jap GP got pushed out of the gravel trap went round a lap got a new wing carried on going, got enough points to take the championship but the FIA took them away.:rolleyes:
 
NathanE said:
That's a pretty ******* sick way to talk about someone. You're implying he committed suicide.

You're an edgy character aren't you? :confused::o
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Huh?

1990 Japanese GP. Senna gets away badly, Prost leads towards Turn 1, Senna doesn't even brake for the corner and slams straight into Prost taking him out. "Kamikaze" seemed a good way to describe it.


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Slam62 said:
Slightly biased view

Senna could do it because he was ahead in the points
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Oh well, that's alright then....:)

Slam62 said:
But lets remind ourselves of why Senna did it.

Oh yes the FIA fiddled a judgement the year before to suit the then Chairman Monsieur Balestre

Senna crashed into Prost at the Jap GP got pushed out of the gravel trap went round a lap got a new wing carried on going, got enough points to take the championship but the FIA took them away.:rolleyes:
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I won't deny that he was swindled out of the '89 title....sort-of. He did get outside assistance at a time before the clarification over pushing cars out of dangerous places on-track. Does that give a driver the right to take out a rival in a fairly dangerous manner? Tough call, but I'm thinking not. But, he got away with it, got his revenge and got his title.
 
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JRS said:
Mostly playing DA to be honest. Though you should probably read again what I wrote there. Actually, I'll re-write it a bit clearer.

You said that Alonso is a traitor for dropping McLaren in the **** at this hearing. You seemed to be implying that this was worse than his actual 'crime' - that he had access to the Ferrari tech data that Coughlan obtained. I take issue with that. I still think that he was completely wrong for doing what he did, I'm just slightly amused by the fact that a lot of people seem rather more angry that he ratted out McLaren than the fact that he (effectively) possibly cheated.
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He handed over what he knew simply to save his own arse. Doesn't make him a traitor - just easily bribed. What does make him a traitor is that he knowingly broke the rules on numerous occasions behind the team's back and that has resulted in the team being banned from the Constructors title this year. Coupled with all the other 'goings on' that Alonso has done this season and it amounts to the fact that he has royally screwed over his team. He is a traitor, pure and simple IMO... and I can't believe McLaren want him sitting in their car this weekend wearing their sponsored jumpsuits.
 
NathanE said:
He handed over what he knew simply to save his own arse. Doesn't make him a traitor - just easily bribed. What does make him a traitor is that he knowingly broke the rules on numerous occasions behind the team's back and that has resulted in the team being banned from the Constructors title this year.
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It makes him a weak very sad little man who appears to be able to stoop very low to get his way.

He should be chucked out, if you confess to the police they wont let you off scot free.:rolleyes:
 
NightSt@lk3r said:
think he got confused with imola 94.
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Sure hope he did, because otherwise I'm completely confuzzled.

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NathanE said:
He handed over what he knew simply to save his own arse. Doesn't make him a traitor - just easily bribed. What does make him a traitor is that he knowingly broke the rules on numerous occasions behind the team's back and that has resulted in the team being banned from the Constructors title this year. Coupled with all the other 'goings on' that Alonso has done this season and it amounts to the fact that he has royally screwed over his team. He is a traitor, pure and simple IMO... and I can't believe McLaren want him sitting in their car this weekend wearing their sponsored jumpsuits.
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They want him in the car because despite his many character flaws he's still one of the quickest drivers on the grid and stands a damned good chance of winning the WDC this year driving one of their cars.

If there are to be any repercussions regarding his actions, I'm sure they'll come post-season. Honestly though...I hope that you're right and he does get his petulant arse booted out of that team.

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NathanE, would you do me a favour and clarify what you meant by post #525? As I'm still confused. Did I word my previous post badly as you seem to have read something into it that just wasn't there?
 
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JRS said:
Huh?

1990 Japanese GP. Senna gets away badly, Prost leads towards Turn 1, Senna doesn't even brake for the corner and slams straight into Prost taking him out. "Kamikaze" seemed a good way to describe it.


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Oh well, that's alright then....:)



I won't deny that he was swindled out of the '89 title....sort-of. He did get outside assistance at a time before the clarification over pushing cars out of dangerous places on-track. Does that give a driver the right to take out a rival in a fairly dangerous manner? Tough call, but I'm thinking not. But, he got away with it, got his revenge and got his title.
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So in summary Ferrari didn't win the title in 1990.

I'm sure there are a great many other teams and drivers who 'nearly' won the title several times.
 
NathanE said:
He handed over what he knew simply to save his own arse. Doesn't make him a traitor - just easily bribed. What does make him a traitor is that he knowingly broke the rules on numerous occasions behind the team's back and that has resulted in the team being banned from the Constructors title this year. Coupled with all the other 'goings on' that Alonso has done this season and it amounts to the fact that he has royally screwed over his team. He is a traitor, pure and simple IMO... and I can't believe McLaren want him sitting in their car this weekend wearing their sponsored jumpsuits.
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Never a truer word spoken.

What I cannot fathom is why McLaren don't just sack him, right now. Surely the worst possible outcome for them now is that he wins the championship and wanders off into the sunset and to another team, leaving them with nothing.

They need to shaft him the way he's shafted them.
 
Vertigo1 said:
Never a truer word spoken.

What I cannot fathom is why McLaren don't just sack him, right now. Surely the worst possible outcome for them now is that he wins the championship and wanders off into the sunset and to another team, leaving them with nothing.

They need to shaft him the way he's shafted them.
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Too many Spanish orientated sponsors
 
Vertigo1 said:
Never a truer word spoken.

What I cannot fathom is why McLaren don't just sack him, right now. Surely the worst possible outcome for them now is that he wins the championship and wanders off into the sunset and to another team, leaving them with nothing.

They need to shaft him the way he's shafted them.
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They could sack him for Gross Misconduct and Alonso's lawyers couldn't say jack. It would look good in the papers too as it would at least indicate that McLaren firmly blame the individuals involved in the scandal and don't feel guilty as a team as a whole.

We all know that Ron would prefer it if Lewis won anyway - so considering what Alonso has done to the team why not just sack him now and pretty much guarantee Lewis' victory?

What have they got to lose? They've already lost all their Constructors points! It's all about that Drivers title now and I really can't imagine ANYONE in McLaren right now wanting that to goto Alonso.
 
NathanE said:
They could sack him for Gross Misconduct and Alonso's lawyers couldn't say jack. It would look good in the papers too as it would at least indicate that McLaren firmly blame the individuals involved in the scandal and don't feel guilty as a team as a whole.

We all know that Ron would prefer it if Lewis won anyway - so considering what Alonso has done to the team why not just sack him now and pretty much guarantee Lewis' victory?
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Exactly, there's literally no down-side as he's pretty much guaranteed to walk after this season anyway.

As for the sponsors, when Alonso walks the Spanish sponsors can naff off with him tbh. As long as they keep Vodafone they can live without Santander.
 
McLaren have and I expect will want to keep their proffessional image they have with the press and to the viewing public so I really can't see them becoming vindictive in the open air, and certainly not if it's cause for the team to lose focus on what's really important.
 
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