Mclaren might be in the poo big time [ANCIENT THREAD REVIVAL]

Alonso should be Docked points for this in my opinion. The only thing wrong with that would be people would think i favour Lewis which is Not true as i find him irritating to say the least.
Another thing though is i Hate Ferrari with a vengeance so don't want to see them win anything even a court battle.
This whole situtations stinks as when Ferrari use there guile to influence race results nobody says a thing.
F1 has hit an all time low in my opinion & not just because of the cheating. In the 70's it was about the machine & the driver, nowadays God knows what it's about.



Edit.
I should add that i Love Hamiltons driving, it's the out of car bit i find irritating.
 
Vertigo1 said:
I'm saying that "they" isn't the McLaren team, it's a few individuals acting independently. You seem incapable of discerning the difference.
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It doesn't matter. They are not acting independantly, they work for mclaren. Everything they did was under the name of the team, its a team game and they get punished as a team.

IF all this talk of Alonso being the downfall of the team is true, which I highly doubt then the team can and will sack him and sue him for his actions.

I bet they don't though. The fallout from who alonso can and would implicate and the evidence he can provide for who he worked with on the data would blow mclaren apart.

IF alonso is the baddie in this Mclaren have no reason not to sack him as of now. Forget the title, they will win it with lewis anyway if they sacked alonso.

So why haven't they sacked alonso if he is the bad guy in all this?

Why because a string of people will have been working with him on the data and findings from ferrari.

@JRS alonso did try to block lewis from his data as lewis was saying how much information he was gaining from alonso's traces. The team would not let him with hold the info though in the interests of the team. Lewis still has full access to alonso's data and vice versa.
 
JRS said:
Wait a minute....

The drivers were promised amnesty if they co-operated fully with the investigation, right? But it was supposedly Ron who handed over the correspondence, not Alonso. So how on Earth did Alonso get off scot free? I can see why they wouldn't boot Lewis out. He's not implicated in this nonsense at all. But Alonso is in it up to his petulant childish cheating neck.

(I may be slow, but I get there in the end!)
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Now do you see why we are all up in arms about this? The punishment that's been handed out simply doesn't fit the crime. Naturally people are going to call the FIA biased and in favour of Ferrari because they appear to have made a completely opposite decision in punishment in what was actually required.

Even if they wanted to preserve this years title fight (which they clearly did) Alonso and his test driver should still receive some long term punishment. And I honestly think if Alonso manages to beat Hamilton to the title then this season will have been the BIGGEST farce in F1's history.
 
Set up data and traces are completely different.

It depends how deep it goes in to the team

I still think its all about Money
 
Slam62 said:
Set up data and traces are completely different.

It depends how deep it goes in to the team

I still think its all about Money
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They have full access to each others set up as discussed in the briefings. They are not holding info back on one another. The team wouldn't allow it. As for Mclaren the team always comes first:D

I do understand your anger NathanE if Alonso won, but I really don't think he and pedro worked alone. Regardless if Lewis wins the title he will have done it in a team that has a car with a cheats advantage. Although I will say he seems totally blameless and would be unluckily caught up in it.

Still as a driver he will have benefitted from the information mclaren got, even if he was unknowing of where that info came from.

I wouldve liked to see all the points stripped from the drivers as well as the team for this year.

Lewis could have sued alonso too then ;)


So is no one going to answer the question of why alonso hasn't already been sacked then if he's the big baddie????????
 
NathanE said:
And I honestly think if Alonso manages to beat Hamilton to the title then this season will have been the BIGGEST farce in F1's history.
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Even Im not the biggest Hamilton fan but I with you on this one. It just would'nt be right.

I think that Pedro De La Rosa, should be banned for a season or two. To me hes got off scot-free.
 
dannyjo22 said:
So is no one going to answer the question of why alonso hasn't already been sacked then if he's the big baddie????????
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Because its Alonso, the current two time world champion, thats why.

However though, the statements he said about him bringing 0.5 to the team and the team has'nt given anything to him was totally stupid. I bet Ron was'nt too happy when it happened. I doubt that Ron will pay off the remaining years / months on his contract and let him go.

Ron wants 2 world class drivers, thats what hes got. No need to change at this time.
 
JRS said:
Yes. The story seems to be this:

Alonso tells Ron that he's going to release the e-mails, as part of a negotiation tactic. Ron says "bugger that" and tells the FIA about them before Alonso gets the chance to do so.

You'd have to say, the more that comes out about this saga the worse it looks for Alonso.
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Right now we have a problem. The FIA said the only reason the drivers never got punished was because they got offered immunity for any info, and it looked like Alonso and De La Rosa gave them the info. But now Ron is saying it was him? in which case why is Alonso not been punished at all in this matter?
 
Bennah said:
Because its Alonso, the current two time world champion, thats why.

However though, the statements he said about him bringing 0.5 to the team and the team has'nt given anything to him was totally stupid. I bet Ron was'nt too happy when it happened. I doubt that Ron will pay off the remaining years / months on his contract and let him go.

Ron wants 2 world class drivers, thats what hes got. No need to change at this time.
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If the rumours are true that Alonso was using the info to blackmail Ron for a better deal and no1 status then I can't see any future for him at McLaren. Him and Pedro should be sacked then McLaren can be seen to be doing the right thing for the sport.
 
dannyjo22 said:
I do understand your anger NathanE if Alonso won, but I really don't think he and pedro worked alone. Regardless if Lewis wins the title he will have done it in a team that has a car with a cheats advantage. Although I will say he seems totally blameless and would be unluckily caught up in it.
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I'm just going on the evidence released yesterday. If there are even MORE McLaren employees tied up in this then that changes things completely. But from our current understanding of the released facts it was simply Coughlan, Alonso and De La Rosa from the McLaren team that were conspiring to test out Ferrari car setups. Particularly surrounding the tyres and braking systems. None of their 'efforts' would have been included in the 2007 car because that car predates this whole scandal but could have been used in a 2008 car - potentially. Whether by core development engineers being "in on it" or whether the rogue employees simply directed efforts and swayed peoples opinions in the direction of the Ferrari data without actually explaining why. I.e. De La Rosa might say something like "Oh I think we should try <so and so> weight distribution in the sim..." and then has a smug face and is looking for a bonus when/if the tests come back good.
 
Surely Ron found out about it and told them. But it's not his email address so he can;t hand over evidence. Therefore the FIA has offered immunity in return for the emails as otherwise they cannot get them and have no new evidence.
 
I think the same as you, they should be sacked. Can see Pedro going for sure. Its hard to tell about Alonso though. He could have been blackmailing Ron, its just rumours atm.

When he first joined the team, he wanted number 1 status as the current champion, but he never got it. I think its started all from the start of the season, the fued with Alonso and Ron. To me there has been a gap between Ron and Alonso. Ron to me has been more invloved with Hamilton, Alonso could be jealous of this, Im not sure.

One thing correct though, Alonso should be in trouble for the findings that have been made about him and Pedro talking about Ferrari information, but he has'nt, for the sport I think this is wrong.
 
NathanE said:
Spanish sponsors would bounce their sponsorship cheques if they sacked Alonso.
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They couldnt. Haven't Mclaren always maintained its the team thats sponsored not the drivers. That they dont have money coming in purely because of a driver.

If Alonso's actions have cost the team 100 million dollars they have extremely good grounds to sue the backside off Alonso and Pedro.

But they wont because of who else Alonso and Pedro can implicate.

If this was purely those 3 in the thick of it Ron would sack alonso and sue him, but he wont because of who else may know more than has been let on.

As for it not affecting the 2007 car, it would. Just the change in gas going into the tyres will have given them a tyre boost instantly on this years car. I'm sure they then didnt just use that mixture on alonso's car. 25th march 07 they learned of the ferrari gas.

So if alonso has threatened the team for No 1 status and been a pain in the bum all year long, then has cost the team millions they would sack him gladly and sue him.

Unless they really need to keep him quiet.
 
dannyjo22 said:
As for it not affecting the 2007 car, it would. Just the change in gas going into the tyres will have given them a tyre boost instantly on this years car.
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Who's to say that the Gas actually worked for the McLaren? Are all teams now running this gas?
 
Hmm here's one for you


knowing all about stepneygate etc why would the cheat keep his e-mails surely even a Spanish cheat would know how to delete e-mails or at least ask someone.

I'm sure Ron would have showed him how.:confused:
 
JBeck said:
Who's to say that the Gas actually worked for the McLaren? Are all teams now running this gas?
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Well this would have a tiny net effect, I thought they all use inert gas (nitrogen?) anyway, we're talking about difference in a gas's heat capacity and then there's the resulting tyre pressure.

It would have to be a pretty dense gas to have a different thermal effect.

Then what about the weight, all seems a bit odd to me.
 
The back page of the Times has this to say:

Fernando Alonso's future at McLaren Mercedes is in doubt after allegations that he threatened to tell the FIA, the governing body of motor sport, about Ferrari secrets on his computer unless he was confirmed as the team's No 1 driver.

The disclosures icrease the likelihood that the Spaniard will no drive for the Woking-based team next season and will possibly join Renault or even take a year's sabbatical. There were even suggestions that he may not survive the remainder of this season, whic would effectively present the world championship to Lewis Hamilton, his rookie team-mate

Alonso is alleged to have made this thread during a row with Ron Dennis....on the morning of the Hungarian Grand Prix on Augsut 5. It came as Alonso tried to force Dennis to give him preferential treatment over Hamilton, the championship leader, or let him leave McLaren at the end of the season.
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There's a bit more after that, but that's the main part of the story. They also summarise the WMSC report:

1) Mike Coughlan had more info than previously appreciated and was receiving info from Ferrari in a systematic manner over a period of many months.
2) The info was disseminated to some degree within the team.
3) De La Rosa requested and received info from a source he knew to be illegitimate for use in testing.
4) He shared this info with Alonso.
5) There was a clear intention on the part of these employees to use Ferrari confidential info in their own testing.
6) Coughlan's role put him in a position in which his knowledge of the Ferrari data influenced him in the performance of his duties.
 
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