The current dole system. A complete joke?

ethan · 15 Sep 2007 at 12:30

AcidHell2 said:
If your retraining thats fair enough. a lot don't and just expect to get a smiliar job or stay on the dole.

I think that hits the nail on the head. It may be that the "dole" as it is refferred to, does not provide an adequate chance or enough choice for those wishing to retrain to something better, and so in some respects it is just perpetuating an already inefficient circle? For those that refuse to train or show themselves to be productive in some way, then there should be no element of choice whatsoever and their money stopped. This will come eventually but in my opinion it is too late for the previous and this generation of timewasters.

V4NT0M · 15 Sep 2007 at 12:30

ic1male said:
That chap must have a particularly lax benefits team then. Every 13 weeks you'll have another in-depth interview and if you can't prove you've been looking for work, you should get chucked off.

Doesn't happen.

nichorob · 15 Sep 2007 at 12:30

waxapple said:
My dad got made redundant a couple years back at 52, took him 10 months to find another job that'd take him, he's now back in IT.

You saying he shouldn't've got the dole after 6 months? He'd've lost his house, car etc.

Im not saying that at all, im saying after 6 months of unemployment / claiming they have to do something to justify the benefit.

THMRK · 15 Sep 2007 at 12:32

When I was on the dole, after 6 months they send you on a course thing where you spend like a week doin an intensive search for a job. If you still can't get one after that, you get taken off it.

It never went that far with me, and that was a while back now. But a couple of mates I know who were on it, were on it for a year and because they couldn't get a job, were forced to sign off.

Glaucus · 15 Sep 2007 at 12:33

waxapple said:
My dad got made redundant a couple years back at 52, took him 10 months to find another job that'd take him, he's now back in IT.

You saying he shouldn't've got the dole after 6 months? He'd've lost his house, car etc.

He could have got loads of jobs, just not in it. Supermarkets will take on people at 52. He should have got something like that, until he found an IT job. The dole should be the last resort, not the first.

Tican · 15 Sep 2007 at 12:35

ic1male said:
That chap must have a particularly lax benefits team then. Every 13 weeks you'll have another in-depth interview and if you can't prove you've been looking for work, you should get chucked off. You need to provide documentary evidence such as letters sent/received from prospective employers, etc. After 12 months you are supposed to go on New Deal or whatever.

6 Months for 18-24's and 18 Months for 25+

Whilst on New Deal, whilst it can be slack, you do generally have to prove you have been applying for jobs or your benefits can be stopped for anything up to 3 months :eek:

, although I have only seen that happen once.

Glaucus · 15 Sep 2007 at 12:37

DJ Binks said:
6 Months for 18-24's and 18 Months for 25+

Whilst on New Deal, whilst it can be slack, you do generally have to prove you have been applying for jobs or your benefits can be stopped for anything up to 3 months , although I have only seen that happen once.

and all you have to do is get an application form, fill it with some rubbish and send it off. Thus fulfilling the applying for jobs, whilst having no hope of getting it.

waxapple · 15 Sep 2007 at 12:40

AcidHell2 said:
He could have got loads of jobs, just not in it. Supermarkets will take on people at 52. He should have got something like that, until he found an IT job. The dole should be the last resort, not the first.

He was applying for many jobs, they were extremely helpful, was applying all over the country. The problem is that at 52 working in a supermarket, you're an even less appealing choice as a potential IT employee.

Sad, but recognising someone's face as that old bloke who stacks shelves in the local ASDA isn't going to do many favours.

He was rigorous with applying for jobs, they were really helpful with him as they could see he was putting the effort in too. He was driving all over the country.

Seriously, if you've got a mortgage, a car, and one months wages to survive on, surely applying for the dole is sensible in addition to looking for work?

Tican · 15 Sep 2007 at 12:40

AcidHell2 said:
and all you have to do is get an application form, fill it with some rubbish and send it off. Thus fulfilling the applying for jobs, whilst having no hope of getting it.

Yes and no. It all depends on the type of job, and how often they [Clients/Learners] do it.

Glaucus · 15 Sep 2007 at 12:42

waxapple said:
Sad, but recognising someone's face as that old bloke who stacks shelves in the local ASDA isn't going to do many favours.

It's extremely unlikely to be recognised, getting a job in a supermarket even at 52 is easy. As I said before it's better to have any job than none. It shows dedication to the new employer. Rather than someone who quits and gives up.

cheets64 · 15 Sep 2007 at 12:42

I see it all the time around Wigan, young lads walking around in the day with cans of stella girlfriend in tow with a couple of kids, makes me sick, I mean the reason they stay on benefits is because its an easy life for them, live in a **** hole of a place, doss about and go on the rob.

With the influx of polish people just shows you that there is work for these "British unemployed benefit scum" I mean do they want £10 an hour or minimum wage or just to take benefits all there life, plus people on benefits are more likely to be criminal than your average working class family.

badbob · 15 Sep 2007 at 12:44

Originally Posted by Moses99p
I think you should get any job as soon as possible, then you can always look for a better one...

These sorts of people haven't had a horrible job in there life...probably high earners. Quit your job and and be a janitor for a couple of years...and see what happens.

As I said before it's better to have any job than none.

No it isn't. I've worked low paid jobs and it's hell..treated like **** and they know they can do it.

waxapple · 15 Sep 2007 at 12:47

AcidHell2 said:
It's extremely unlikely to be recognised, getting a job in a supermarket even at 52 is easy. As I said before it's better to have any job than none. It shows dedication to the new employer. Rather than someone who quits and gives up.

Getting out of a job in a Supermarket at 52 wouldn't've been so easy.

With regards to recognising faces I guess it depends on the size of the place you live in/luck/how long the 52 year old is stuch there/where your potential employers/workmates shop etc.

He certainly didn't quit and give up, he was applying for stupid amounts of jobs daily, I can't emphasise enough how hard he was working.

You offer a potential different employer's perspective to the one he was offered, which is fine, there's always likely to be different points of view/perspectives.

Anyway, the system worked, he got back into employment, is paying his taxes/NI contributions again and all is well.

Glaucus · 15 Sep 2007 at 12:50

waxapple said:
He certainly didn't quit and give up, he was applying for stupid amounts of jobs daily, I can't emphasise enough how hard he was working.

But thats not what a potential employer would see.

badbob said:
These sorts of people haven't had a horrible job in there life...probably high earners. Quit your job and and be a janitor for a couple of years...and see what happens.

No it isn't. I've worked low paid jobs and it's hell..treated like **** and they know they can do it.

Supermarkets
Order picking
Warehouse jobs
Data entry
slaughter houses
manual labour

I've had truly awful jobs, at no point did I consider going on the dole.

cheets64 · 15 Sep 2007 at 12:50

I just work weekends at the moment while I train up in the week, Sat/Sun 2-10PM bring home about £470 I mean its boring work but its easy and a lot more fun than being on the dole like a sad ****

moon man · 15 Sep 2007 at 12:53

I was unemployed for 13 days 2 weeks ago and was paid £92 per wk plus £80 per wk for having two kids then council tax rebate , free perscription, an offer to fully insulate my home for nothing , ect ect ect
I think that over the years your tax and ni should build you a fund that will pay out pro rata to the money you have put into the system

waxapple · 15 Sep 2007 at 12:55

AcidHell2 said:
But thats not what a potential employer would see.

Depends on the employer, some may see it one way, some another.

An afterthought, it's a lot harder to look for work/travel for interviews etc. if you're working full time in a supermarket.

Sonea Fifer · 15 Sep 2007 at 12:55

moon man said:
I was unemployed for 13 days 2 weeks ago and was paid £92 per wk plus £80 per wk for having two kids then council tax rebate , free perscription, an offer to fully insulate my home for nothing , ect ect ect
I think that over the years your tax and ni should build you a fund that will pay out pro rata to the money you have put into the system

Now thats a good suggestion - you get back what you've paid into it !

Makes sense, which is why it'll probably never be implemented

Nexus · 15 Sep 2007 at 12:58

If you need time to look for jobs or need to do some training then go for a part time job.

Its what I did when I graduated uni; it looks way better than going on the dole and pays you more... plus you then have time to job hunt/train.

nichorob · 15 Sep 2007 at 12:58

Sonea Fifer said:
Now thats a good suggestion - you get back what you've paid into it !

Makes sense, which is why it'll probably never be implemented

Yes, sounds good. Thats also the system (or very similar) that they use to good effect in Spain.