Girlfreinds Citroen Xantia fault diagnosis........

Scania

Scania

Scania

Caporegime
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On the road....
Had a call tonight, girlfriend in a panic,

"The STOP thing has been on for about a minute, and its making a long drill type noise" :confused: seems she'd been driving for quite a while with said light on.

I told her to leave it alone and I'd call round to where she was & have a look.

Oil & water is fine,starts ok, operating @ normal temperature and seems to drive absolutely fine (well, as fine as an average P reg Xantia with typical French electrics drives!!!) so I am a bit puzzled.

Seems to be a lot of "ticking" which makes me wonder if the spheres (?) / suspension in general may be out.

Just had to smile at the fault description!

Any ideas guys? I'm stumped - in more ways than one! :D;):p
 
TaKeN said:
But surely it wouldn't drive Ok if the handbrake was on ? :p
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A guy from work bought an old 924 porsche 2.0 and drove it home only to be teasy that it wasn't pulling well at all...


He left the handbrake on the whole way back.

...yes he is dumb. :cool:
 
Stop light on my old one used to come on when I was low on suspension fluid after have a long but small leak. Check the levels tell tell sign would be strange brakes
 
Checked the LHM fluid level I presume?

Does the suspension rise and fall as it should with no groaning when it leaves the top (bar a little bit on the first try given its age)

The "drill" type noise, I have no idea about!!

the STOP sign is generally a hydraulic problem, though technically its for all faults. Given the whole car is hydraulic, thats why its usually a hydraulic problem!

Presuming it isnt a VSX or Activa, it will have 6 spheres, one on each corner, a front accumulator (bottom of the engine, under the piping just below the oil filter) and one at the back in the middle to stop the car hitting the deck overnight.

You might also want to check the auto tensioner pully that the auxialiary belt runs round. When they get loose, it does cause a "drill" type noise when the engine is idle and even at some revs. I had to replace mine a year or so ago. Its a small pully behind the hydraulic pump (the black one to the left of the engine in front and below the fuel pump) You can physically see if it has play when the belt is moving. Though i dont see why this would cause a STOP failure.

First port of call would be to raise and lower the suspension, giving the foot brake a good few pumps, to make sure the basic hydraulic system is working as it should. Leave it at the bottom for a minute or so then whack it straight to top. The STOP light should come on for around 30 seconds then go out and the car start to rise.

Other than that.. check the engine for play, the bottom mount is known to be a weak spot and i suppose excessive engine movement could at least account for the noise if not the STOP.

Good luck ;)
 
manic_man said:
Checked the LHM fluid level I presume?

Does the suspension rise and fall as it should with no groaning when it leaves the top (bar a little bit on the first try given its age)

The "drill" type noise, I have no idea about!!

the STOP sign is generally a hydraulic problem, though technically its for all faults. Given the whole car is hydraulic, thats why its usually a hydraulic problem!

Presuming it isnt a VSX or Activa, it will have 6 spheres, one on each corner, a front accumulator (bottom of the engine, under the piping just below the oil filter) and one at the back in the middle to stop the car hitting the deck overnight.

You might also want to check the auto tensioner pully that the auxialiary belt runs round. When they get loose, it does cause a "drill" type noise when the engine is idle and even at some revs. I had to replace mine a year or so ago. Its a small pully behind the hydraulic pump (the black one to the left of the engine in front and below the fuel pump) You can physically see if it has play when the belt is moving. Though i dont see why this would cause a STOP failure.

First port of call would be to raise and lower the suspension, giving the foot brake a good few pumps, to make sure the basic hydraulic system is working as it should. Leave it at the bottom for a minute or so then whack it straight to top. The STOP light should come on for around 30 seconds then go out and the car start to rise.

Other than that.. check the engine for play, the bottom mount is known to be a weak spot and i suppose excessive engine movement could at least account for the noise if not the STOP.

Good luck ;)
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Thanks for the informative post mate (the last thing I honestly expected! :D) I'll nip outside & have a play with the suspension & see whats what.
 
Hmm, just had a good mess & it rises & lowers fine, although a slight flicker of the stop light whilst its lowering. :confused:

The electrics are well dodgey tbh (fan comes on / off for no reason & the controls do nothing) the keypad alternates between 1111 or 9999 to start it (!) and the aircon button makes the CD player die! :p

Its not a V6 or VSX, its a 1.9TD SX Estate.

She tends to run it on fumes, I notice the fuel lights on (as usual!)

I'm not in work until 6PM tomorrow, I'll have a proper look when its light!

Thanks again.
 
Lol the electrics on mine arnt that bad, same age but a hatchback, all works exactly as it should actually!

The flicker isnt too unusual as it moves up and down, though do have a proper check of the LHM level.

Forgot to say before, you can tell a knackered accumulator as it should make an audible "tick" roughly once every minute or so (upto 2 on a really new one) while the engine is idling. A knackered one will basically be clikcing away like a grass hopper. This tends to lead to heavy steering, sluggish brakes etc as the accumulator is kind of like the safety reservoir of the whole system, its why it all keeps working even if the engine cuts out.

The more I think about it though, the more likely a worn auxialiary belt pulley sounds for the "drill" noise. Mine was really quite rattley at idle and upto around 1200 RPM until I changed it, and you could visibly see it vibrating until the revs were raised. Theoretically i suppose if it was REALLY bad then it could interfere with the hydraulic pump, causing the STOP to come up if the pressure dropped. The aux belt runs around the alternator, hydraulic pump and aircon pump, all is over the left of the engine, it has no cover and is very obvious.

Other than that, only thing I can suggest is if you happen to be around the cheshire area I can recommend an excellent mobile mechanic who was trained by VW and then Cit and specialises in Cit's who is very reasonable. Or just dont worry about it and enjoy owning a "quirky french car" ;)
 
manic_man said:
Forgot to say before, you can tell a knackered accumulator as it should make an audible "tick" roughly once every minute or so (upto 2 on a really new one) while the engine is idling. A knackered one will basically be clikcing away like a grass hopper. This tends to lead to heavy steering, sluggish brakes etc as the accumulator is kind of like the safety reservoir of the whole system, its why it all keeps working even if the engine cuts out.
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Grasshopper on speed sums it up mate! - about 20 clicks per min @ idle - you can hardly hear it above the din of the 135k mile engine mind.....


manic_man said:
Other than that, only thing I can suggest is if you happen to be around the cheshire area I can recommend an excellent mobile mechanic who was trained by VW and then Cit and specialises in Cit's who is very reasonable. Or just dont worry about it and enjoy owning a "quirky french car" ;)
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I live in Kidsgrove, its Cheshire border ish I suppose! - would'nt mind a link / phone number mate - any ideas of a ball park price for the job?

Cheers again for the info. :)
 
Im really not sure how far he travels out. I have to goto Northwich for him to come to me and thats right on his border, but I've never asked which way his other border is!

If you want his number, email me at the address in my trust and i'll send it through, cant hurt to ask.

If you want to change the accumulator though, id do it yourself. I did and it really isnt "that" painful. If you have done an oil filter before there isnt much difference. The sphere will be about £20 from somewhere like GSF or Eurocarparts, some say always go for the official brand as they last longer, but tbh they also cost about £20 more....

All you have to do is put the car on low, leave it idling and release a pressure bleed valve thats very prominent under the accumulator. You turn it once (DONT take the bolt off) and leave it idling for about 2 or 3 minutes to release all pressure from the system. Then you turn the car off, leave it for a minute, remove a few of the solid pipes from the top of the engine, wrangle your hands down in behind the radiator, take a good firm grip and try and turn ;) If and when you get it off, watch out for the little bit of LHM that will leak out, use a bit to seal the new gasket and screw on the new sphere. Tighten up the bleed screw and start the car, stick it into high and wait for a few minuites as the system repressurises. Simple as that.

This page has the process documented with pictures (albeit for a VSX so with extra spheres at the front and rear but the same accumulator) http://www.aussiefrogs.com/shane/xantia/xantiaspheres.htm

Simon would probably charge 1 hours labour at a guess, which was around £15 last time I used him, but he refuses to use non standard Cit spheres, though you can buy them yourself and he'll fit them.

I'd do it yourself though ;) Im no grease monkey, im limited to oil changes etc, but it really wasnt hard and my non standard sphere has been going strong for over 2 years now.
 
I haven’t got my Xantia Handbook in front of me, but I think that the (!) light should come on at the same time if the pressure in the hydraulic system is too low. The stop light is used to relay a number of critical problems to the driver, I can’t think of all of them off the top of my head, but I know it lights up if the hydraulic or oil pressure is too low, and it also lights up if the coolant is too low. I’d check all the levels before doing anything.

It’s probably worth replacing the front accumulator sphere before replacing the actual accumulator, it’s a 15 minute job and a new sphere is only about £15 – 20.

The problem with the fans is caused by a dodgy ignition switch, because the current is drawn directly though the switch and not though a relay (great idea Citroen!) the switch can burn out causing an intermittent contact, try spraying some switch cleaner followed by some WD40 into the ignition barrel, it sorted the problem on my old car.

I would guess that the other electrical problems are caused by a bad earth, might be worth grabbing a Haynes manual and giving them a tidy up.
 
Might be worth checking the PAS pump pulley too, mine made hell of a noise when the bearings let go, you could see it jumping around when you look down the left/offside of the engine.
 
The drill noise will be the pump operating at full pelt, which coupled with the stop light means the hydraulic pressure is too low and/or there is a lack of LHM.

It also sounds like it needs a new accumilator sphere. Manic Man is a bit optimistic in my experience when he says you should be able to unscrew it by hand! I had to use a big cold chisel and a lump hammer to change one on my old Xantia.

Is it a sinker?
 
blueboy2001 said:
The drill noise will be the pump operating at full pelt, which coupled with the stop light means the hydraulic pressure is too low and/or there is a lack of LHM.

It also sounds like it needs a new accumilator sphere. Manic Man is a bit optimistic in my experience when he says you should be able to unscrew it by hand! I had to use a big cold chisel and a lump hammer to change one on my old Xantia.

Is it a sinker?
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Sinker? do you mean is low?

Its sitting bang on the floor atm (been parked overnight) but seems to look normal when driving (I followed her in it last night & the ride height looked fine)

Doubt I'll do the job myself,

A: I really don't have the time. :(

B: If I did do it something would go wrong & I'd end up in the dog house. :rolleyes:

C: I'd most likely break something really imoprtant & expensive. :o

D: I'm really far too lazy! :o

:D
 
Well i managed to undo mine by hand :p But then again I do have "Grip-O-Steel" (tm) it wasnt particularly easy though!

All sound advice above. Presuming the LHM is a bit low, you might also want to do a visual check for leaks around the engine bay (look for green citroen blood, it smells quite sweet too, though the coolant often looks and smells similar) and also in the drivers footwell. Mine has a slow leak from (we presume) the brake cylinder at the mo, so my carpet is slowly turning green (no its not the heater matrix).

I still say the drill noise *could* be the aux belt pulley, the more I think about it the more a "drill" is a good desription of the noise it made, it would be instantly obvious though.

Also, I could be wrong but a P reg shouldnt hit the deck overnight, might be different for estates. It sounds like it could do with a new set of spheres all round being honest. Theres a place in manchester (well a guy and his garage if im being precise), in Chorlton-cum-Hardy, that will do a full set of refurbs fitted for £125 or a bit more including the accumulator. Offers a 3 year warranty on them too. They have a website: http://www.westroen-spheres.co.uk/
 
A P reg car should have the anti-sink system fitted, but in my experience once the struts become worn it’s pretty much useless and the car will sink overnight while still functioning normally in every other respect.
 
Driven it for a good 30+ miles today, with no issue.

It seems to want to go over 80deg in traffic, so perhaps its overheating? - no sign of the fan cutting in until you switch off the engine & then turn just the ignition on, then, it runs for about 4 minutes!

(As I say, those bloomin' French electrics!)

It definately sits on its arse after leaving it for about 2 hours, and takes about 30 seconds until it levels on startup (lots of ticking)

Tame spanner monkey friend taking a look tomorrow.

Thanks again for all the help & pointers guys. :cool:


(Despite all your help, she still moans when I'm "on that bloody forum"! - Women eh? ;):p:D

Manic Man, you have mail sir.
 
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