Best sites for getting feedback?

[V-Spec]

I guess whatever kind of photography you do depends on what kind of critique you'll get... I've always done sports/action photography, cars/horses/athletics/wildlife... Most of the critique I get is of a technical nature because if the picture doesn't work its usually for some kind of screw up on my part, not because I positioned a vase full of flowers in the wrong place, or the person im showing simply doesn't understand.. The kind of photos some people post on here are basically closer to fine art than they are to a photo, which means you'll always get completley different critique because most of the time it depends on whether the audience will engage with the picture or not,

 

[Sic]

I think the problem that occurs on this forum (don't have experience with other forums) is that there's a lot of back-scratching. Personally, I think it should be a rule that you can't post just to say "I love them" - which is why I don't post unless I can think of a way that I'd improve a photo. Whenever I post photos, it's because I'm looking for advice on how I can improve them - not necessarily to make them technically better, just to make them more aesthetically pleasing - sometimes, obviously, these are one and the same, but most of the time, I don't think that's necessarily the case.

one thing I think would be more useful, is if people posted a little background info on their photos - what were they trying to achieve when they composed a certain shot, what they were trying to achieve with their processing, etc. It's very difficult to critique a photograph when you don't know what the photographer was trying to achieve when they took it!

overall, it's a difficult problem to overcome, and I think people get a little touchy when given critique but, conversely, people can be a bit rubbish about giving it. just because you see a photo as better once you've altered it to suit your preferences, doesn't mean you're necessarily correct, and that seems to be a difficult concept for people to grasp.

these are the reasons that I don't generally post a lot of images or critique - I'd prefer to go out shooting with photographers that I rate to improve my technique, and the way I look at things - obviously, this is rarely practical.

 

[NorthstaNder]

To the OP:- Whilst a very nice site, don't post on Flickr if you want contructive comments. Flickr is just a massive love in and whilst I do post my photo's there, I do it purely because it's an easy site to use and nice for my family members to look at.

But as far as comments go, all you'll get are "wow...great shot!" and then dozens of cheesy awards.

But...it is probably the best photo sharing website out there.

 

[V-Spec]

In all fairness I don't really see why people get so caught up in critique, what does it matter unless its a competition? I only really post stuff on forums just for the sake of showing off some of the stuff i've done, Im not really that bothered about people ripping a particular image to shreds or commenting on how good it is...
Some people on here seem to post photos simply for the purpose of critique, like they go out rattle a few off then come back and wait for the comments, which all seems a bit pointless to me... I like photography because I like catching action so I can look back at events and remember how amazing a particular thing was and hopefully sell a few..

 

[TheAlex]

Critique is an important process in getting better as a photographer, and that's looking at others work as well as people looking at yours. People have noticed things in mine and other images that I haven't myself and if you can look at someone elses photo and figure out in your head what makes it good, or what makes it bad, I think it all helps you to become better, whether consciously or subconsciously.

 

[Helium_Junkie]

Critique is not everything, there is nothing wrong with simply liking a picture, and if someone wants to post a critiqueless "Hey that's nice", good for them!

I've seen good critique here and get a nice feeling of community when people throw their oar in and play with a picture, seeing what other people do is a great way to learn. Having an art degree (or being in the midst of studying one) does not make you a better or more important source of opinion than anyone else, nor does it give you any right to claim that other people have less knowledge.

 

[ChroniC]

Ah, now I get you. You're far more on the art side than purely the photographic. It makes sense now.

That's fine, there's nothing wrong with how you view photography. I had a girlfriend who did a fine art degree and I know how you are encouraged to think and work and analyse.
However, with some of the people here, me included, sometimes you see a picture and just like it. You don't need to back up why you like it with backgroud reading and philosophical reasoning

Thanks for seeing my point, i feel the same about some shot i see but cant explain why i like them, which is what im writing my dissertation on. I believe having read up on it that it based on a instinctal response to beauty you find in nature, or through social conditioning. (Its very long,tireing, and unnecessary to this post to explain, and is only my theory.)

I guess whatever kind of photography you do depends on what kind of critique you'll get... I've always done sports/action photography, cars/horses/athletics/wildlife... Most of the critique I get is of a technical nature because if the picture doesn't work its usually for some kind of screw up on my part, not because I positioned a vase full of flowers in the wrong place, or the person im showing simply doesn't understand.. The kind of photos some people post on here are basically closer to fine art than they are to a photo, which means you'll always get completley different critique because most of the time it depends on whether the audience will engage with the picture or not,

True, i suppose not everyone can master every technicallity of every form of photography, but ive recently felt that being technical is like working with computers, once you know, how they all seem to click, and become simpler.
Artistic talent is the same but i think more vague and harder to concieve sometimes. Swap sport/cars/horses/wildlife for time/passion/representation/thought etc etc. Mix the 2 and you get a sport picture when someones scored with passion, with perfect timing, thus your photo steps out of the box and becomes better. Not easily come by thought, but if learnt hopefully not accidental.

Critique is not everything, there is nothing wrong with simply liking a picture, and if someone wants to post a critiqueless "Hey that's nice", good for them!

I've seen good critique here and get a nice feeling of community when people throw their oar in and play with a picture, seeing what other people do is a great way to learn. Having an art degree (or being in the midst of studying one) does not make you a better or more important source of opinion than anyone else, nor does it give you any right to claim that other people have less knowledge.

Personally critique is the wrong thing to ask for then, it means anyone can say its nice, thats just a judgement without an observation of why. If people ask for constructive criticism, how can you tell if the person is experienced enough to be able to criticise the way you did it or what you took. Which is why i think King4aday asked me to post shots, because how can i criticise what i cant do, and incidental seeing as i dont have a huge array of i told you so work, why i dont criticise on this forum. (although when i do try and suggest something different, i get told to get off my high horse when explaining what i ment.)
What i think we are mixing up is opinion, anyone can have an opinion. An opinion is nothing more than a statement of a thought in your brain. Then what's the word for an educated statement based on research knowledge, experience and influence. Something i think is worth more than, "i think it looks nice". Why do you? And is your answer based on theories, research or other peoples agreeing views?
Art isn't just made to look good, i prefer to think of photography as an art.

 

[Helium_Junkie]

Technical critique is no less opinion than saying "It looks nice". How can you expect every person to say the same thing about a picture?

If a picture is grainy, and one viewer says "It's noisy, use a lower ISO" does that make the critique right? It may be 'technically sound' advice, but then someone else comes along and says "The grainyness works well with the atmosphere in this" and you've got two technically fine criticisms saying completely different things - opinion. And neither of those requires any photographic experience to point out, merely a pair of working eyes.

And that doesnt mean they lack knowledge either, it means they don't value the same things as you do in the picture.

If people ask for constructive criticism, how can you tell if the person is experienced enough to be able to criticise the way you did it or what you took. .

You don't need an art degree or fifty years of photographing to point out things you don't or do like in a picture. We're not just talking about telling people how to do things differently, we're talking about telling people what could be done differently, then letting them find out how (should they wish) on their own or with the help of those more experienced on the forum. And there are people here with plenty of knowledge and useful tips, I havent had a technical question go unanswered yet.

So I disagree wholeheartedly with the comments here stating that there is no good critique on the forum. Every single opinion is critique, no matter how simply put.

 

[ChroniC]

so which is good, which is bad, which is constructive, useful or not. By your logic no is capable of anything but suggestion and its all down to the person who took it to decide.
I dont agree, "hey i like that" is not an opinion its a statement of feeling, "hey i like that because its green but i think you should", is an opinion.

You don't need an art degree or fifty years of photographing to point out things you don't or do like in a picture

Thats completely not the point, its having the ability to back up your opinion with fact to make it more usefull and informed, which person is likely to be able to do this better, experienced or inexperienced guy, and which is going to help more?
My logic says you'l listen to David Bailey more than random joe, yours says their opinion is equal.

on their own or with the help of those more experienced on the forum. And there are people here with plenty of knowledge and useful tips, I havent had a technical question go unanswered yet.

Exactly, im not saying you cant answer technical questions, there solid fact, im suggesting opinion is worth more through knowledge and experience.

 

[Helium_Junkie]

I don't think we're on the same page here, two opinions from two sources doesnt mean you listen to the more learned person over the less learned. Both need consideration, to ignore the less learned opinion just because someone else has more experience is daft.

And what's more important. Someone who knows the technical aspects of capturing reference images (super sharp all detail etc) or someone who is an arty sort? Opinions come from all walks, if you listen to them all you're doomed.

You should never act on everyone elses opinion, you need to make your work your own, in this way all opinions are valid and equally useful.

 

[ChroniC]

Then we'll have to agree to disagree.

And what's more important. Someone who knows the technical aspects of capturing reference images (super sharp all detail etc) or someone who is an arty sort? Opinions come from all walks, if you listen to them all you're doomed.

What if someone can provide both, or more? If you think photography isnt both then your very much misinformed, infact the technical side is only the basis for not arty, but meaning/semiotics. Just because i can paint straight lines, that doesnt make me da'vinci

I don't think we're on the same page here, two opinions from two sources doesnt mean you listen to the more learned person over the less learned. Both need consideration, to ignore the less learned opinion just because someone else has more experience is daft.

So you'd except both opinions on how best to change the engine of a fighter jet from a cook, and a fighter jet engineer as equal
Fair play ignorance is rude but if your only helpful opinion ends up coming from 5 agreeing cooks, and then the engineer says something different. He will get slated by the agreeing cooks, and you end up with a rubbish knowledge of engines, and **** jet plane. Im not saying a cook cant be an engineer, but he needs experience or education for me to see his opinion as equal. The problem lies in 2 disagreeing engineers, to which you then make a judgement for yourself.

Opinions come from all walks, if you listen to them all you're doomed.

No this is different, its called research and influence and should be encouraged, it helps development, of your ability and character. Great photographers dont just appear out of thin air.

 

[ichabod crane]

this argument is based on opinions aswell so your never gonna settle it.

Edit: Just to play devils advocate, where do you draw the line on experience? do you ask the person to whip out his degree to show he is compatent enought to critique your work? They could well be liars and just read a lot of books on photography but have never picked up a camera in there live, its a forum so you dont know the person giving there opinions its annonymous so in that case everyone should be recieved equally

 

[ChroniC]

Opinions can be changed.

 

[Helium_Junkie]

So you'd except both opinions on how best to change the engine of a fighter jet from a cook, and a fighter jet engineer as equal Fair play ignorance is rude but if your only helpful opinions ends up coming from 5 agreeing cooks, and then the engineer says something different. He will get slated by the agreeing cooks, and you end up with a rubbish knowledge of engines, and **** jet plane

This is why I think we're on a different page. You seem to think that just because opinions are there you have to ignore your own judgement.
If a pastry chef told me that a jet engine probably wouldn't work then I'd listen to his reasons for why and use my own wits to decide what to do, I wouldn't blindly adhere to his criticisms of my jet design...
Just as I wouldn't blindly follow criticism from a jet engineer either. I would listen to the opinions and decide what to do myself.

With this in mind if an average moe comes along and says "I don't like how the clouds look in your picture" and you come in with more experience/study under your belt and say "I like the clouds, they obey the rule of thirds" I will try to see it from both sides and then go with whatever I prefer, no matter what they said.

We have people in this forum who give the former, and people with the knowledge and experience you value as well. Criticisms come simple and complicated, but in the end its your own opinion of your work that matters.

 

[ChroniC]

If a pastry chef told me that a jet engine probably wouldn't work then I'd listen to his reasons for why and use my own wits to decide what to do, I wouldn't blindly adhere to his criticisms of my jet design...
Just as I wouldn't blindly follow criticism from a jet engineer either. I would listen to the opinions and decide what to do myself.

Ok! what happens if you agree with the chefs, and your jet only ever does 100mph, you think it worked but how can you be sure? Remember this is a forum and its a bit like wiki, miseducated opinion can cause your jet to be crap.
Sorry for using an analogy
It may seem that im coming across as everyone should listen to me, i know best etc etc, im so educated, but im not. What i would prefer is that people do there own research from knowledgeable forms of source to explain their opinion, or otherwise only state they like it for personal reasons. Telling someone what to do without this is i think very bad, which in a way is why i hate the auto levels crew.

 

[V-Spec]

Surely though, critique is only worth a certain amount, as some of us at some point will wish to illustrate our work to other "none photographic" people who won't have a clue what the rule of thirds is, or what exposure is.. They just want something nice to go on a wall, or a poster. They will determine in the first second of looking at the image whether they like it or not.. I've experienced this through taking portraits of people's horses.. I'll do a shoot then pick the best 50-60 images and go through them with the owner.. they'll skip right past the best pictures and end up going for one which in my opinion isn't the best but they like it more for a simple reason that they just like it..

 

[Helium_Junkie]

Ok! what happens if you agree with the chefs, and your jet only ever does 100mph, you think it worked but how can you be sure? Remember this is a forum and its a bit like wiki, miseducated opinion can cause your jet to be crap.
Sorry for using an analogy

Good analogy, I like it.
So you're saying that there are more people in this forum with completely miseducated opinion than there are with useful opinions?

 

[ChroniC]

This could cause a **** storm becuase in a way yes! I dont think their miseducated that was the wrong word to use. More so, just not fully educated enough (bare in mind this is a subsection of a computer forum) to be proudly promoting their form of work as gospel, which i find stunts progress and is a side effect of the masses in text form.
For instance lets say im new, i listen, i learn the basics, i join the group educated to a certain level. I cannot progress if i stay within the group, opinions become static and repeated.

 

[Helium_Junkie]

I think it should be left to the individual to recognise when they've grown beyond the advice given here and stop asking for it. But this is a fantastic place to learn. I went from poor to competent via these forums and am grateful for all the help given, I've learnt a lot.

To say that people here have less knowledge than a photography for beginners book is completely unfounded, we have competition winning and published photographers/authors here. Several of our community are exceptionally gifted, and many are technically brilliant.

And to say that this forum is "just a subset of a computer forum"... the people here are allowed to have multiple hobbies, this doesnt make them worse at one or the other, thats an irrational argument. Do you imagine that everyone in this forum is solely a computer nerd who just happens to own a camera? Are you such a person? Does being here mean that you are far less a photographer than a... "computer user"? It doesnt even make sense!

 

[ChroniC]

Ok no, i dont. But really what i was getting at is not asking for advice, but pedalling the same information back without moving to the next level. I just feel i seem to be alone in suggesting against the grain, and when i try to explain why i get told im a black hole.
Il have to carry this discussion on another time.