Liverpool FC - Official Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
Soldato
Joined
6 Jul 2005
Posts
5,712
According to the sticky, we have more supporters on this forum than any other team, so I think that's a perfect reason for us to have our own thread. :cool:

Nice little introductory piccy...

34greck.jpg


After a semi decent start to the season, things have started to go downhill a little, we're dropping points in the league (Although not losing) and our champions league is proving to be a little harder than first thought. Predictably Rafa's rotation policy has come under fire a little, and I personally think the team shouldn't be chopped and changed so much.

Discuss. :)
 
About the team; Love Rafa but he is starting to annoy me! I'm of the opinion that he needs to stop messing about with the team and play his strongest 11 available in every game. Even if it's against Accrington Stanley!
 
Bout time we had a thread, I was considering making one but meh.....

Anyway on our start to the season and our chances of winning the title, we were looking very good until Pako left, whether or not that's a coincidence I do not know. We've already shown we can play well enough against the top teams, if we manage to maintain a level throughout the rest of the season similar to the way we played against Chelsea theres no reason why can't be challenging for the championship. Obviously that's a lot to ask judging by the way we've played the last few games but hopefully the international break can help rather than hinder this time around, a fresh start if you like, and who better to play than Everton to give the players a kick up the ****.

The next 3 games are very important, if results go our way it's by no means impossible that we could be just a point or two behind the leaders. No doubt if that happens it will be back to "omg we're gonna win the league" like after the Derby game.

When everyone's fit I'm hoping Rafa will play the following team and just stick to it, in the league at least.

Reina

Finnan Carra Agger Arbeloa

Pennant Alonso Gerrard Kewell

Kuyt Torres
 
May as well merge this with my 'Rafa's Rotating' thread because thats going to be the main topic of discussion in here as well.

Paco leaving and our form dropping is just a coincidence, the guy was a fitness coach and (Paco) De Miguel had already been brought in to work alongside him (some think thats part of the reason why he left). Despite working alongside Rafa for a long time he was never the assistant as Rafa (nor other Managers in Spain) have a set assistant and if anyone was his assistant it was (yes another Paco) Paco Herrera who moved back to spain after the first season (pre-determined).

And as for having Kewell in your 11 :confused: The guy's a ****ing liability, i had a breif lapse towards the end of last season (when he made a couple of great cameos) and actually thought he's back but since then he got injured just prior to the season kicking off then was set to make a return for the reserves (at the same time as Aurelio) and got injured again, he's not started a game for us since the FA Cup final and by the sounds of it isn't close to making a return any time soon.

My only critisism of Rafa was leaving Torres out vs Pompey, i know Rafa felt he wasn't fully prepared as he hadn't trained since going away for Spain but i felt that a win there would have set us up nicely for a run of games that we should have won (which we didn't) and kept confidence up going into those games.

But like you say, win our next 3 games (2 league (1 vs Arsenal at home) and CL away) and our season is right back on track if it ever was off track.
 
When everyone's fit I'm hoping Rafa will play the following team and just stick to it, in the league at least.

Reina

Finnan Carra Agger Arbeloa

Pennant Alonso Gerrard Kewell

Kuyt Torres

No Benayoun? I think he deserves to start over pennant/Kewell (What's the crack with him? Still injured?) Very creative player who can make a goal out of nothing.
 
Who would you stick on the left wing Baz? The only above average perfomance I've seen all season on the left was from Babel, but it was against Derby....

No Benayoun? I think he deserves to start over pennant/Kewell (What's the crack with him? Still injured?) Very creative player who can make a goal out of nothing.

Benayoun's good performances have come when he played on the right, I've yet to see him play well on the left.
 
No Benayoun? I think he deserves to start over pennant/Kewell (What's the crack with him? Still injured?) Very creative player who can make a goal out of nothing.

but 50% of his starts he's gone ****ing missing, his performance vs Pompey was one of the worst performances i can ever remember seeing from a Liverpool player, wasn't much better vs Marseille either. Pennant has had a really decent start to the season and fully deserves his place in the side and in the England squad too and im certainly not a Pennant fan, i spent most of last season calling for him to be dropped then sold but since the last couple of months of last season (excluding the CL final where he was wasteful) he's been improving no-end and along with Arbeloa been our best player this season. I would have Babel on the left ahead of Kewell btw, he's still adapting but you can see the quality is there and he has a hammer of a right foot (as good as Riise's left), he had a decent game vs Derby and Sunderland and also made some decent sub appearances in our first few games..

Babel played on the right vs Derby weringo, Pennant played left (started the other way round though then swapped and stayed that way for most of the match).
 
well, i think you've pretty much summed it up quite nicely. should our new underboss nokkonwud rtm for a thread closure?




;)



actually no, go on. how far do you think you'll get in champions league? win it? last 4? last 8?
Fa Cup?
Other cups?
Top 2 or top 4 for the league?

i can see you winning a cup, don't think it'll be champions league so i'll make it a domestic cup. still don't think you're strong enough to win the title though to be honest even though i'm not going to completely write you off. i could see you getting into the top 2 though. Champions league you always seem to do well in but this season it doesn't seem to be clicking so well for you, it'd be pretty bad if you didn't get past the group stages but can't see that happening, maybe last 8/last 4.

you're still a few players shy in my honest opinion.
 
Last edited:
¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬Reina¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬

Finnan* Carra Agger *Arbeloa

Gerrard Alonso Masch Babel

¬¬¬¬¬¬¬Kuyt Torres¬¬¬¬¬¬¬




its maybe time for gerrard to go back out wide where he was a great success scoring his best goal tally, i dont care about 'his' best position its whats best for the 'team' ... xavi and masch must play and babel given the time to fit in with the team as he's defo got quality and something special about him , as sadly kewell has been finished since he left leeds

we need another striker, someone who can run with the ball taking on defenders and not bring it back to our midfielders ala crouch who will probably be sold .. my replacement ? i'd defo go with bringing back anelka *still cant believe houllier bought that tossbag' diouf *

as for Rafa, brilliant, he has finally got the financial backing that liverpool have needed for the past 10+years and i truly believe in him ... we might not agree or at times understand his 'tactics' (not r******n) but he lives and breathes football ...

this year ignoring all the doom merchants and press idiots well finish in the top 4 but its too early to say what position, the team is 5pts better off than last yr and unbeaten , its the players who need to start giving it more they are the ones letting the fans down atm
 
I think the 6-0 win against Derby combined with a little Torres magic and media-spin has got everyone in a frenzy.

Now anytime we don't win it's a complete and utter nightmare and Rafa should be sacked.

At the start of the season I would have taken a good challenge. I don't think we are capable of winning the league - and I think that for a few reasons, if anyone cares to read on.

1) Rotation

It's easily something to complain about. Journalists point to it when their alternative of zonal-marking isn't holding up an argument.

I remember the days when you had a set eleven and the bench was as good as you could make it without toys flying out of prams. Chopping and changing may keep players fresh and make them able to be '100% ready for all the games they are called upon, not 90% through the season' but switching this that and the other does nothing for confidence players. It does nothing for continuance, form and understanding.

Further still and it has been touched on recently, there's no holding down your place at Liverpool (if you're not in the back four or a goalkeeper). There's no gentle pressure to give your best because you know another opportunity will arise down the line or that even if you do give your best, you could easily be dropped for the next game.

Add that the likes of Agger, Carragher, Alonso, Finnan, Reina, Gerrard and Torres will be rarely rested - the rotation seems to be in place for only a select view. It doesn't happen throughout the squad so that's even more confusion.

2) Quality

We don't have enough of it. Fernando Torres' signing has been a great one and at £20m, he is already on the way to justifying such a huge tag. He still has plenty to do of course but people are looking and taking notice.

It has been so long that we've signed that type of player (rather than inherited them: see Owen and Gerrard for attacking positions) that we forget just how effective a calculated quality signing can be.

The previous transfer records being Heskey and Cisse were players with big enough flaws in their game - the former lacking any sort of attitude and greed and the latter just had limited ability - but bags of pace which helped save his face in an overall review of his contribution. Diouf, no bargain at £10.5m was a decently talented player with the poorest of poor attitudes.

Houllier's insistence on playing both Diouf and Heskey on the right wing (sometimes the left) watered down their contribution somewhat and eventually led to them being shown the exit door. It is perhaps surprising that Rafa had used Cisse in a familiar way before his switch to Marseille at a £7m loss I believe. Still, two leg breaks later and it could have been worse.

You can understand why Liverpool fans have been surprised by Torres' impact - but in the overall scale of things it shouldn't be that surprising.

This leads me to the likes of Benayoun, Voronin, Crouch, Pennant, and others. You can't help but feel some of these players were or are stop-gaps in Rafa's masterplan. Whilst you can't pepper your team with superstars and get away with it (well, barring Chelsea....at the moment), attacking players with a quality calibre are definitely a necessity in a title winning team.

It is not by coincedence that United have Tevez, Rooney, Giggs, Ronaldo and Scholes, Chelsea have Lampard, Drogba, Joe Cole, Essien and using his AC Milan days as basis for my argument, Shevchenko. All these players are goalscoring matchwinners.

When you look at the Liverpool squad, it's hard to see past just Gerrard and Torres as goalscoring matchwinners. Babel is a possibility for that but he seems to be suffering with confidence at the moment. Alonso and Mascherano are excellent holding midfielders with great distribution (long and short respectively) and Kuyt with Voronin will work all day long but when it comes to the crunch and getting goals or playing a major role in them - I still think we're limited to players we can rely on.

Pennant is a decent winger. He was a decent winger at Leeds on his loan spell and was promising at Arsenal - add in his lack of common sense (red card at Porto which could prove to cost us big) and it's a cocktail of decent and bad. A gamble to even play him or more importantly, keep him on the pitch when we need him. (see Porto again)

Benayoun was good at West Ham and I had watched him several times at Racing Santander. He's good at keeping possession but he can be all too predictable with his twists and turns. I think we've got a like for like replacement for Luis Garcia - a player who will be ineffective in physical games but more than be capable of pulling out some brilliance now and again.

Crouch has everything you would want in a footballer bar grit. He lacks physical body strength (his thigh is the same width as his shin, for example) but regardless of that, he still doesn't put himself about as much as he should. He's too much of a good guy and we saw what happened with Heskey, when he was about as intimidating as a blunt stick with his puppy dog eyes, inability to stay on his feet or even find the net as much as his frame should have instantly warranted.

If we are to have such players in the team, they need to be supported by more Torres', more Gerrards, more top drawer quality. Even the likes of a Voronin or a Crouch could flourish with a better standard of service.

The wings of our team can be non-existent at times and if they are rarely working, blocking off Pennant usually snuffs the threat. Gerrard through the middle with two quality wingers (such as Giggs and Ronaldo) would cause absolute havoc. Players wouldn't know whether to stay wide or block the centre and it's easy to see where gaps become available in opposition and how many threats you can pose, just by utilising players with quality.

At the moment we don't have 'that' level of quality in attacking areas and we have seen examples of that this year (Birmingham, Tottenham, and so on) as well as last year, where the problem has been partially addressed in the summer with the signing of Torres and Babel.

The £11m addition of Babel was one I wasn't overly fussed about. I knew of him and knew Wenger was very keen (which is usually a good sign) but I always saw him as more of a striker, than the winger he has been used as this year and he just doesn't look eager or confident enough to attack. £11m could have been better spent and I think even at this stage of his career, I would be very careful with him because he is young and isn't perhaps as mentally ready as the signing would suggest.

Still, 'The next.....Henry' isn't a bad compliment to take from someone as stubborn as Van Basten.

3) Manager

Controversial one. But a valid reason for our potential problems. Rotation is the way Rafa plays and unlike the 4-5-1 formation we insisted on using and Morientes - I doubt he will change his mentality towards this so easily. Infact, if anything puts him out of a job it will be his stubborness towards it - leading in lack of winning games. It comes back to the lack of goals.

A European Cup, another European Cup Final, FA Cup, Super Cup and Charity Sheid isn't to be sniffed at in his record of Liverpool achievements alone (not mentioning La Liga titles with Valencia and a Uefa Cup) but as I mentioned, his stubborness in his own methods could prove to be both his maker and his claim to fame. I just fear the latter will be pre-2007/2008 season.

<stop:crapramble>
 
wow, i can't be bothered to read it because i've got to pop out but that seems a very well thought out and laid out post Slogan.



*i've jsut quickly read it and you raise some good pretty unbiased points.
 
Last edited:
I think Liverpool still have a long way to go. I could go on for hours about whats wrong with them but it'll only end with Baz disagreeing and arguing his point until I back down.

Then again I may regret this post at the end of the season. Who knows:)
 
Cracking post Slogan. I agree with everything you said apart from Babel, I believe £11m is decent money for a player with as much potential as him, just look at what United paid for Nani and Anderson.
 
Last edited:
I think Liverpool still have a long way to go. I could go on for hours about whats wrong with them but it'll only end with Baz disagreeing and arguing his point until I back down.

Then again I may regret this post at the end of the season. Who knows:)



Baz is cool, he always comes out with very convincing arguments which while you initially think are biased and rose tinted by sheer dint of determination and persistence he gets you to back out and concede point by point until you start to see some of his views as pretty damn reasonable. then they go and do something silly like lose 1-0 to marseille or finish twenty something points behind the league leaders and you think to yourself for a split second 'but this defies all logic!?! intelligent rotation has lead to these players being fitter and fresher than all their rivals come the end of the season. how can this be??'
then it dawns on you 'no no i've been had, saving torres for the carling cup was actually a bad move.'

he's a good poster though, passionate about his club and willing to take a little winding up.
 
I think Liverpool still have a long way to go. I could go on for hours about whats wrong with them but it'll only end with Baz disagreeing and arguing his point until I back down.

Then again I may regret this post at the end of the season. Who knows:)

You mean you haven't got anything to back-up your views (which has been the case in the last couple of debates we've had) and then you realise i was right all along :p

I still think we're a year (or 2) away in terms of squad building to win the league, it took Chelsea 2 seasons of spending £80m odd before they were serious challengers. Like Slogan pointed out we've only got the 2 (3 if Babel makes it) match winning attacking players in our side compared with several at Chelsea and Utd. I certainly think we're going to finish a hell of a lot closer this year but are going to be in need of 1 or 2 more top attacking players and more cover at the back in the summer (if we don't get them in January).
:D At least you have the sence to realise im right, others don't ;)
oh and i never agreed with leaving Torres out (see my first post) just accept Rafa's reasons and fully trust him :) Which is another thing i have been mis-understood, when trying to explain the reason given for a decision people seem to think i agree with that decision or reason.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom