Why do I hate apple?

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Obviously Macs aren't crap, otherwise no-one would still be buying them.

Don't own or like Macs - don't use them. Same goes for PCs.

Obviously people that buy Macs don't buy them because of gaming support, so that argument is pointless.
Yeah, they're more expensive, and even if all they do is look better for a higher price, that's the same as a ton of material goods.

Some people would pay more to have a Hi-Fi that looks slightly better, or a car for that matter. Big deal.

I'm a 'PC' owner, and don't really care about Macs in the slightest. But why bother being all fan-boy ish about PCs. Surely whatever you chose to buy for yourself is all that matters.
Same vice versa.

edit: just had a thought, the 'apple' in waxapple has nothing to do with macs, lol.
 
Generalise much?

Just my general observations, take them as you will.

You can just as easy buy a Mac and install Windows.

Yes, but no-one does. Interesting, you said "buy a Mac" but you clearly mean "buy Mac hardware and Mac software (thus paying for an operating system already) and then install windows at your own behest".

Secondly, Apple choose to market it the way they do because it works for them. They make billions in revenue which is great for their shareholders. The same for any business tbh.

I do not give a flying damn about Apple's shareholders. Apple market it that way because Apple are a bunch of corporate psycho's, the same as in every mega-corporation that attempts to tie you in with everything. And you BUY INTO that.

Apple can't compete with Dell and other manufacturers because Mac's are more expensive.

Tough business luck. Make them cheaper. If they don't have the expertise to do that, business logic says they die in the market place.

The average consumer is tempted by adverts on the TV showing laptops for £350 or towers for even less. Apple products are aimed higher than that.

Apple don't *aim* higher than that, they hit exactly where they want. Apple could get a Mac into every home, school and university if they wanted to - just by lowering the prices and opening their platform. But they won't, because they are trying to scrape every penny out of the poor suckers who are willing to pay for their garbage. Suckers like you.

And you say I'm ignorant of the computer world? Plenty of people do this. The reason more don't is because it's illegal and discussion of it is banned on many forums (including this one) and secondly because a lot of benefit is gained from the hardware working together with the software. Thirdly, where would you get it. Torrent only.

Guess what, its illegal to download and install Windows. I don't do it - I use Ubuntu - but every tom dick or harry knows someone who has a copy "lying around" that they can borrow.

If installation is the one thing thats not discussed because it is illegal, then you are looking on the wrong websites. But then Macs don't exactly encourage you to do your own research.

Again Apple isn't aiming for render farm use or big business use. Because they're more expensive. Why would a law firm spend more on Mac's when all they're using is word processing, email, and accounting? Why would a web hosting company pay a premium?

Why would they pay extra for better design? Or DVD playback? Or iMovie? Or Front Row? These are meaningless to businesses.

In fact, they are meaningless to most people. My computer is a box that sits under my desk and does stuff for me. I don't care (even though I got it from OCUK it happens to have a reasonable case) whether it is sexy. Its fast, it runs linux at lightening speed, it plays DVDs seamlessly (something that most PCs have been able to do for about 10 years). IMovie, as far as I can tell, is for small time video editors to slap together some stuff without getting too technical, which is the approach of most software on the Mac. Front Row - I have no idea what that is, but it doesn't sound like a leading industrial package (though I could be mistakened and missed that nugget of pure joy).

Apple has to concentrate on where it can compete. Niche markets are where it does best.

Funny, I don't remember seeing "Hi, I'm a PC, and I'm a Mac for use in Niche Markets only" in their advertising campaign.

Why do almost all businesses have basic cloth computer chairs rather than Hermon Miller Aeron's? It's obvious mate.

There may be a large price difference between chairs at the top and bottom of the ladder, but there is no way a similar scale of political and economic complexity in that industry as is in software, so don't compare the two.

I think a lot of the public are ignorant of Mac's. Why would a parent risk £1k buying an iMac for their children when a Windows box (that everyone will know how to work from school/work) costs £700?

Whoa whoa whoa... Mac PRIDE themselves on ease of use, so don't try and sell me that. You are trying to mix two things there, cost and usability.

Apple have only recently started marketing to general consumers.

Are you freaking KIDDING me? Apples have been marketing to general consumers since I have KNOWN about them. My old school had a Mac rotting away in one of their cupboards unused (the school went with the Archimedes instead). I can't see any kids using those old Macs as their first PC and learning to program tiny apps. On the archimedes I learnt to program using sprites, fonts amongst other things. But I digress, Macs are for burning DVDs and making amateur Bird Videos.

There are less than 10 Apple Stores in the whole country and only 1 or 2 models in purple shirt land. And you wonder why no-one buys them? Most people probably don't know what they are.

Also, because the Apple stores wouldn't stay in business. Apple aren't exactly the most diverse companies. Even Sony stores do better than Apple stores.

Most people don't know what they are because they learnt at school (and quite rightly) that computers are computers. There aren't "magic computers" that do everything for you. That doesn't stop Mac trying to self itself as just that solution.

What I personally have found is that when people see them in action they generally want one. Since buying my iBook a few years ago, my friend at Uni bought a Mac Mini, my brother bought a MacBook and my dad is adamant that his next computer will be a Mac. Without me none of them would have considered them let alone bought one.

One of my bosses in one of my jobs is getting involved with a sad little cult. He's totally sold up on the idea, he will quite willingly hand thousands of pounds to them. Of course, he is going to everyone he knows trying to convince them how wonderful it is.

Just because he has convinced a few of them, doesn't mean that it actually has value. I could convince you that black is white - it doesn't actually mean black IS white, just that I have sold you the idea well enough for you to believe it.

When people see you using a nice little computer, they want one? Well theres a surprise. But what is the difference between that and using a PC? I guess you had some pretty backgrounds, flashy windows fading effects etc. All possible on PCs (you really should try Compiz, it blows Aero and Aqua away).

Incidentally, it's interesting to see that on average Mac users are more intelligent and richer than Windows users. That probably explains Apple's marketing structure.

Ironically, thats because PC's include the great general public, whereas the only people who use Macs are arty types that have some kind of media or IT background (though not proper development work). Ironically though, by buying into Macs, you've proven yourself to be not quite so smart as the truly smart people who chop and change as necessary and recognise a buy-in con when they see it. And not as rich as those people because they haven't just wasted hundreds of pounds extra on something that will still be obsolete in the same time that a PC bought at the same time is.

I will concede this. Mac hardware can be attractive - from a design POV. I have considered getting a Mac laptop purely because it is dinky - but I would wipe it and put ubuntu on it.

This entire "you must use the software with the hardware" smacks of Cult talk.
 
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Apple price their products so high that only well off people can afford them, and well off people are generally intelligent. Apple target that audience purposley.
 
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Apple price their products so high that only well off people can afford them, and well off people are generally intelligent. Apple target that audience purposley.

I can also imagine that many Mac users see Macs as a sort of Windows XP ++, where its even more powerful, yet easy to use than a regular PC, just by coughing up an extra £300 or whatever.

They don't know and they don't care about what they are buying into. But they soon find out. Its only when things stop going perfectly that they start asking the questions that they should have been asking all along.

PCs contain components from hundreds of different companies, its truly a marvel of engineering, like a giant evolving frankenstein, and yet it still works, and people truly have choice (though there are always clearly some proprietry issues, see OpenGL / nvidia specific extensions etc).

The reason that PC's are so good is that no-one *owns* PC. It is a collective, just like no-one *owns* linux, it is a collective. Those hardware manufacturers that are great succeed, and push forward the boundaries, each specialising in their own area.

Mac in comparison is something like in-breeding, it was stale, the operating system was dying for years and years. Its only because they basically slapped Aqua onto BSD that they even have a decent operating system - and the core of that wasn't developed by Mac.
 
Apple price their products so high that only well off people can afford them, and well off people are generally intelligent. Apple target that audience purposley.


O RLY



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...and it's unfair and wrong to generalise. ;)
 
Don't forget, that intelligent people can still get out of their depth.

Theres a funny video on google videos about a group of post doctoral physics researchers who think they've found a guy with supernatural powers, because he can move a box of matchsticks on his arm without doing anything. It was in a lecture by James Randi The physicists did all sorts of tests on *** box of matches, and had the man examined, and declared it supernatural. Of course, they were a little embaressed when it turned out that it was a simple trick, but they didn't have the expertise to deal with it.
 
Just my general observations, take them as you will.

Fine, i'll take them as they are, which is that they are wrong.

Shoseki said:
Yes, but no-one does. Interesting, you said "buy a Mac" but you clearly mean "buy Mac hardware and Mac software (thus paying for an operating system already) and then install windows at your own behest".

Just because no-one does is not mine or Apples problem. Fact is you are not tied into Apple software once you've bought the thing. And don't buy it if you don't like it.

Shoseki said:
I do not give a flying damn about Apple's shareholders. Apple market it that way because Apple are a bunch of corporate psycho's, the same as in every mega-corporation that attempts to tie you in with everything. And you BUY INTO that.

Every multinational corporation is like that. I'd like to know which company the components in your PC came from. I'll take a guess that most if not all of them come from multinational corporations that are responsible only to shareholders and maximising proft. I fail to see why you have a problem with Apple making me buy software and hardware. I chose to do that. They didn't force me. If I didn't like that I wouldn't have bought it. Windows effectively forces me to buy their OS if I buy a PC since I can't be bothered with Linux.

Do consumers care? Nope.

Shoseki said:
Tough business luck. Make them cheaper. If they don't have the expertise to do that, business logic says they die in the market place.

Die? Rofl. They're in the top 150 biggest companies in America with record profits. Why should they make them cheaper. Why don't Ferrari make their cars cheaper? Or Bang and Olufsen?

Dell can buy millions of cheap components in bulk, spend next to nothing on R&D and bung em in a box. How exactly can Apple compete with that? Apple have to design, code and maintain an operating system. Design, code and maintain all of iLife. They also spend millions on design, research and development of the computer. That's why they cost more.

Some things cost more than others, accept it.

Shoseki said:
Apple don't *aim* higher than that, they hit exactly where they want. Apple could get a Mac into every home, school and university if they wanted to - just by lowering the prices and opening their platform. But they won't, because they are trying to scrape every penny out of the poor suckers who are willing to pay for their garbage. Suckers like you.

A simple as that eh? HP make 5 times more money than Apple. Dell make 3 times more. If Apple could simply put a Mac in every house and school why don't they? They could make more money doing that than taking my money.

Shoseki said:
Guess what, its illegal to download and install Windows. I don't do it - I use Ubuntu - but every tom dick or harry knows someone who has a copy "lying around" that they can borrow.

If installation is the one thing thats not discussed because it is illegal, then you are looking on the wrong websites. But then Macs don't exactly encourage you to do your own research.

It isn't just illegal to download OS X, it's illegal to use it on non-mac hardware. That doesn't apply to Windows does it?

How many people have OS X discs lying around? No-one does, so no, people can't just borrow them. And do you think it's as easy as popping a disc in the drive or launching a program? Why doesn't Linux have more market share? Linux is free and easy to install. Why isn't everyone doing it? People don't care about trying other operating systems out.

Shoseki said:
In fact, they are meaningless to most people. My computer is a box that sits under my desk and does stuff for me. I don't care (even though I got it from OCUK it happens to have a reasonable case) whether it is sexy.

Well that's great but a lot of people do care what it looks like. Hence why iPods have sold in their millions but aren't the best MP3 players on the market. And that is partly my point. Businesses don't care though which is why they don't pay a premium for Macs.

Shoseki said:
something that most PCs have been able to do for about 10 years

Not without extra software they won't. You think Clifford Chance buys computers with DVD software or even DVD drives? LOL. Since you can't buy a Mac without these businesses won't be interested. They're paying for something they don't need.

Shoseki said:
IMovie, as far as I can tell, is for small time video editors to slap together some stuff without getting too technical, which is the approach of most software on the Mac. Front Row - I have no idea what that is, but it doesn't sound like a leading industrial package (though I could be mistakened and missed that nugget of pure joy).

My point was that businesses don't use them so won't pay a premium for them. Blowing your point as to why businesses only use Windows out of the water. It doesn't have to do with how good Macs are.

That paragraph shows you have no real experience with Mac's so it's difficult to take your arguments seriously.

Trent Reznor, Panic! at the Disco, Limp Bizkit all produced songs with GarageBand. But yeah, they're all pretty useless. All the iLife programs are useful and are worth the money. You haven't even used any so you simply can't comment.

Shoseki said:
Funny, I don't remember seeing "Hi, I'm a PC, and I'm a Mac for use in Niche Markets only" in their advertising campaign.

Niche business markets! I clearly said they were now pushing for general consumers with those very recent ads.

Shoseki said:
There may be a large price difference between chairs at the top and bottom of the ladder, but there is no way a similar scale of political and economic complexity in that industry as is in software, so don't compare the two.

Pick any other market where there is a range of prices. Erm, almost every market in the world. Businesses will never pay for higher-end products unless they absolutely need them. They don't NEED Macs so they won't buy them.

Shoseki said:
Also, because the Apple stores wouldn't stay in business. Apple aren't exactly the most diverse companies. Even Sony stores do better than Apple stores.

Source?

Apple stores are doing so poorly that they are expanding them all across the world as we speak? Why are they doing this?

Shoseki said:
Just because he has convinced a few of them, doesn't mean that it actually has value.

I convinced no-one. They did this of their own accord.

Shoseki said:
I could convince you that black is white - it doesn't actually mean black IS white, just that I have sold you the idea well enough for you to believe it.

No you couldn't.

Shoseki said:

Wtf is that? And if I don't know how is my dad going to? He's stuck with what he's given by manufacturers since he isn't a computer geek therefore he will choose something with a great looking UI, no viruses or spyware and everything else the Mac gives him and be happy with it.

Sadly you're looking at things from the perspective of a computer geek. Consumers don't download programs to do stuff. Mac gives them more with less hassle.


The last part was a joke relax.
 
Die? Rofl. They're in the top 150 biggest companies in America with record profits.

Considering they almost went under 10 years ago, and it took the spinmaster (jobs) to come back and MS to buy 150 million worth of shares to keep them afloat. In the 80's they were one of the real forces in computing then they went downhill. Doesn't really matter where you are in the rich list of companies, any company can take a turn for the worse and not recover.
 
Incidentally, it's interesting to see that on average Mac users are more intelligent and richer than Windows users. That probably explains Apple's marketing structure.

Oh please its this delusional elitism that got me starting this thread in the first place.

Thats what MAC users believe but its far from the case.

Bless you all MAC users...Made to believe you are all special when in reality you are all talking out your ****:p
 
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Easyrider what is your issue with Apple Mac users? Seriously, your tone and manner has been offensive. Why do you feel the need to insult them the way you have done continually during this thread? Has a Mac user done something to you in the past?

I use a Mac. I am a IT Professional and I don't care one bit about fashion (ask my wife! :D ) I prefer OS X and Apple products over Windows. I have to use XP and Vista in my work environment and I don't like it. I find OS X does what I need and the 24" iMac next to me at work that the web designer uses has nevr crashed even whilst running almost all of the Final Cut Studio apps at the same time. I have had to re-install my PC numerous times during my work life.

Aha I hear the Windows fanbois shout. What about the games? Well I don't play games at work so on that front OS X wins because it is so much better to use (see use not tinker with) than Windows and the OS looks a hell of a lot better too. Vista looks like crap.

So I don't play games? Wrong, but I want to just play games and not have to mess around with settings so I have a couple of dedicated machines for playing games and they do this better than a PC as I can come home from work insert the disk and play away. No need to worry about frame rate, updates, driver comatability at all. A bit like using my MacBook - it just works!

Will the "MAC Haters" stop insulting Mac Users as we are not all gay, fashion obsessed, emptyheaded Starbucks users, you know? :rolleyes: If you can form an argument without resulting to insults then you all must be 12 year olds.
 
Easyrider what is your issue with Apple Mac users? Seriously, your tone and manner has been offensive. Why do you feel the need to insult them the way you have done continually during this thread? Has a Mac user done something to you in the past?

I use a Mac. I am a IT Professional and I don't care one bit about fashion (ask my wife! :D ) I prefer OS X and Apple products over Windows. I have to use XP and Vista in my work environment and I don't like it. I find OS X does what I need and the 24" iMac next to me at work that the web designer uses has nevr crashed even whilst running almost all of the Final Cut Studio apps at the same time. I have had to re-install my PC numerous times during my work life.

Aha I hear the Windows fanbois shout. What about the games? Well I don't play games at work so on that front OS X wins because it is so much better to use (see use not tinker with) than Windows and the OS looks a hell of a lot better too. Vista looks like crap.

So I don't play games? Wrong, but I want to just play games and not have to mess around with settings so I have a couple of dedicated machines for playing games and they do this better than a PC as I can come home from work insert the disk and play away. No need to worry about frame rate, updates, driver comatability at all. A bit like using my MacBook - it just works!

Will the "MAC Haters" stop insulting Mac Users as we are not all gay, fashion obsessed, emptyheaded Starbucks users, you know? :rolleyes: If you can form an argument without resulting to insults then you all must be 12 year olds.

Just saying something is "better" does not constitute and arguement.

And thats all I have have read from MAC users.

"my Mac is better"

What does that actually mean?

And saying Vista and XP are crap is is purely subjective.

Have you missed out the bits from other Mac users that say PC users are poorer,less intelligent etc...

If thats not offensive and complete and utter nonsense then I don't know what is.

Explain the better points to me please?
Rather than just saying its better.

Technical arguement with examples to back it please.

Thanks


You own a PC too.This seems to be a common trend among MAC users.They just can't quite let go.

This tells me something even more:p
 
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I wondered when the insults would start to fly.

Its responces like this that reinforce my thinking.

If they were that much better then one would have no urge to own a PC imo.
 
Man, please close this thread, or I fear the forum will collapse under the weight of all the juvenile **** being jabbered.

Both platforms have their strengths and weaknesses. The interesting question is why some sadsacks feel they need to align themselves so strongly with either side, to the extent of being hostile. Have a day off!
 
Before I bother reading all the thread, is it just a bunch of 14 year olds (mentally if not physically) spouting pointless arguments and stupid insults about the opposing platform or has some kind of decent debate managed to happen?
 
Aaaahahahahahahaahhahahahahahahaahahhahaa *breathe*

hahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaaaaaaaaaaaa aaa a a.

No.

I thought as much.

I'm still debating whether to get a macbook... free iPod and high ed. discount knocks like £300 off the price effectively :o
 
We get Mac users comes into our shop many times when buying paper, printer cartridges that sort of thing. And they always have to say how much better than PC's they are, etc. Yet the same people come in the next week complaining none the things they buy are Mac compatible and its terrible how much more MS Office costs.

We find most Mac users tend to be either a) art lovers saying they're poor (though spending £2000 on a laptop) b) teenagers wanting to be non conformists or c) women buying them because 'they look nice'.

If we could say it to them our advice would be "Get a PC".
 
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