What to do now regarding Virgin Media?

mrochester · 16 Oct 2007 at 17:06

Hi guys I had a Virgin Media ADSL connection for about 3 months when I moved to my new house. I was on the 30 day rolling contract.

The connection was absolutely terrible in the evenings (300kbps and less) and their Customer service was shocking (I was on hold for 40 minutes to get a MAC code). During the call to request my MAC code, the lady I spoke to said I would be charged £50 for leaving within the first 12 months. I didn't bother argue with this at the time.

After the call, I set about writing a letter of complaint regarding the £50 charge they were going to put on my account. I quoted from their T&Cs conditions which they had broken, and said that as a result, the £50 charge should be waived. I also said I would like a reply by a specific date (sometime in early September I believe the date was).

I did not get any reply, and just today I have had a £50 charge taken from my bank account. Needless to say, I am absolutely furious.

Can anyone offer some advice as to what my next course of action should be? It seems as if they've just tossed my original complaint straight into the bin.

whitecrook · 16 Oct 2007 at 19:58

You should have got them at the time, before this happened to waive the charge. It's probably too late now. How did they take the money ? Direct Debit? In that case you should have cancelled it before they could do that. I don't expect you'll get the money back.

mrochester · 16 Oct 2007 at 20:53

whitecrook said:
You should have got them at the time, before this happened to waive the charge. It's probably too late now. How did they take the money ? Direct Debit? In that case you should have cancelled it before they could do that. I don't expect you'll get the money back.

I did try and get them at the time. I wrote a letter of complaint to them the day I requested my MAC code. They either did not receive it, or it was simply ignored.

They took the money by direct debit.

I don't see why I won't get the money back. The whole reason I left was because they contravined their own T&Cs (which I quoted to them in my letter). I can't see how they can break their own T&Cs, and then still charge me a cancellation fee!

233 · 16 Oct 2007 at 20:55

speak to your bank

ask them to reverse the payment as the money has been taken without your permission,

have a read of the direct debit guarantee

Rainmaker · 16 Oct 2007 at 21:21

You should definitely be entitled to not only a refund of the £50, but also a further payment of £50. In other words, it wasn't YOU who owed THEM £50, but rather the other way around.

The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and related statutory and case law makes clear that a contract may only contain terms both parties would be happy being held to. Basically, it stops one party unfairly gaining advantage over the other by contractual means.

If they were willing to charge you £50 for breach of the contract, they can only expect to be held to the same terms after THEIR breach. Write them a stiff letter, and have a quick read of the regulations. Schedule 2(e) should be the most relevant part, off the top of my head.

whitecrook · 16 Oct 2007 at 23:27

The point of a direct debit is that you give permission for them to TAKE money from your account. By signing a direct debit mandate you have given them permission. This is why a lot of people (me included ) do not use Direct Debit. Send me a bill, and I'll pay it my way, and no I won't let you take the money from my account thankyou very much.....

Bomag · 17 Oct 2007 at 00:59

whitecrook said:
The point of a direct debit is that you give permission for them to TAKE money from your account. By signing a direct debit mandate you have given them permission. This is why a lot of people (me included ) do not use Direct Debit. Send me a bill, and I'll pay it my way, and no I won't let you take the money from my account thankyou very much.....

Nope

They can only take money out to the value they have billed you for and they have to give you 14 days to contest it. If they take more than is billed, or if they don't provide a bill then it is fraud.

mrochester · 17 Oct 2007 at 08:36

Hi thanks for the response guys.

My next course of action is this...

I've written another letter, and included inside it a copy of my original complaint. I am going to make sure I send this recorded delivery.

I also spoke to my bank who said I could file something (can't remember what it's called) to allow the bank to go to Virgin Media and ask for the £50 back.

Dolph · 17 Oct 2007 at 10:41

Rainmaker said:
You should definitely be entitled to not only a refund of the £50, but also a further payment of £50. In other words, it wasn't YOU who owed THEM £50, but rather the other way around.

The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 and related statutory and case law makes clear that a contract may only contain terms both parties would be happy being held to. Basically, it stops one party unfairly gaining advantage over the other by contractual means.

If they were willing to charge you £50 for breach of the contract, they can only expect to be held to the same terms after THEIR breach. Write them a stiff letter, and have a quick read of the regulations. Schedule 2(e) should be the most relevant part, off the top of my head.

The problem with that, of course, is that the OP will have to demonstrate they have been in breach of contract, or that the contract terms and conditions were unfair. If he had a working connection he's going to struggle to do that.

It would be interesting to see the grounds the OP thinks they have breached their T&C's on, otherwise telling him to quote random legalise at them is rather unnecessary as it may well make him look rather silly when he finds out he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Avalon · 17 Oct 2007 at 13:51

Do a DD Indemnity, that way you have your money back and then contest it with them by written complaint, it's a lot simpler for them to remove a charge from your account that issue a refund cheque but be prepared to sort it out NOW not just forget about it or they'll pass it over to a collection agent who'll pass it on to another collection agent etc etc etc and that's when it becomes an utter PITA.

It was one of those things that you should have sorted out at day one with them, log a fault each time the service is unusable and after a few ask to disconnect the service, at that point you have it documented that you've had nothing but faults, under those circumstances they'd probably have done it no questions asked.

mrochester · 17 Oct 2007 at 13:58

Dolph said:
The problem with that, of course, is that the OP will have to demonstrate they have been in breach of contract, or that the contract terms and conditions were unfair. If he had a working connection he's going to struggle to do that.

It would be interesting to see the grounds the OP thinks they have breached their T&C's on, otherwise telling him to quote random legalise at them is rather unnecessary as it may well make him look rather silly when he finds out he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Their terms and conditions state that Virgin Media will 'provide enough resources for a high standard of connectivity' or something to that effect. I did speed tests at different times of day to prove that in the evenings, the standard of connectivity was very poor (just a little above dial-up speeds).

Their terms also stated that they'd provide a 'high level of customer care, 365 days a year' (again something to that affect) and I was on hold for 40 minutes to speak to someone about getting my MAC code. Yesterday when I called again I was on hold for 20 mins to their very poor quality phone line before it eventually just went dead and I had to hang up. This is hardly a 'high level of customer service'.

romperstomper · 17 Oct 2007 at 14:14

yeah I've had trouble with them ,takes them about 2-3 weeks to respond to a letter (its ignored if not sent recorded) and they phone you up instead of a written reply !
If your broadband goes down you have to pay a connection charge and high rate to speak to a tech advisor in india that gets paid peanuts and you can't understand what they are saying !
Have a word with consumer direct .............may be more stress than its worth though .

Dolph · 17 Oct 2007 at 15:35

mrochester said:
Their terms and conditions state that Virgin Media will 'provide enough resources for a high standard of connectivity' or something to that effect. I did speed tests at different times of day to prove that in the evenings, the standard of connectivity was very poor (just a little above dial-up speeds).

Connectivity != connection speed. Connection speeds are dealt with elsewhere in the terms and conditions.

C9: Line Speed: We cannot guarantee that maximum transmission speeds can be obtained at any time; nor can we guarantee that, where you are eligible to receive a speed upgrade, the upgrade can be successfully completed within the indicated timelines; however we will endeavour to inform you of any issues, and attempt to resolve them, as soon as is reasonably possible.
C10: Performance: Due to contention on the telecommunications network and other factors outside Virgin Media's control the speed of Service may vary from time to time. In addition the speed and limitations of your chosen access Equipment may affect the Transmission Speed that we can provide you.

http://www.virgin.net/terms/broadband_tc.html

You have connectivity, you don't have connection speed. It's not the same thing.

Their terms also stated that they'd provide a 'high level of customer care, 365 days a year' (again something to that affect) and I was on hold for 40 minutes to speak to someone about getting my MAC code. Yesterday when I called again I was on hold for 20 mins to their very poor quality phone line before it eventually just went dead and I had to hang up. This is hardly a 'high level of customer service'.

Again, wait time isn't really indicative of levels of customer service on offer.

mrochester · 17 Oct 2007 at 15:48

Well look at it this way then. They say I may have speed issues from time to time. I had speed issues every day without fail.

Wait times certainly are indicative of poor customer service.

Avalon · 18 Oct 2007 at 13:13

Customer service is/was representative only of itself, that's a policy/training issue for individuals, the time it took to get that service is another issue eg forecasting of call volumes and scheduling the right staff to be in at the right times, just because you had to wait has nothing to do with how your call was handled, it is however a part of your overall customer experience. To some it may seem like splitting hairs but to anyone who's worked in a call centre and been involved in the mechanics behind it the two issues are worlds apart.

Either way stop deliberating the point with us and take it up with the people who atm have your money! They're the ones who you need to spend the time convincing

Good Luck!

mrochester · 18 Oct 2007 at 13:29

Hi thanks. Yes I have taken it up (again) with Virgin Media. I have also got my bank to reverse the direct debit.

whitecrook · 18 Oct 2007 at 20:04

Bomag said:
Nope

They can only take money out to the value they have billed you for and they have to give you 14 days to contest it. If they take more than is billed, or if they don't provide a bill then it is fraud.

And you trust these companie sto do that?

Beleive me - It's a lot easier for a large company to get money from an individual than it is for an individual to get money back from a company - why potentially put yourself in that position?

Bomag · 19 Oct 2007 at 01:14

whitecrook said:
And you trust these companie sto do that?

Beleive me - It's a lot easier for a large company to get money from an individual than it is for an individual to get money back from a company - why potentially put yourself in that position?

It is very easy I phone the bank 'Hello, Virgin DD of the 12/10 is more the the billed figure' - bank says OK puts it though dispute resolution process + refunds the excess. Virgin has to prove that it is the billed amount before it gets its money back.

If you want to challenge a bill before its paid just contact the bank and CC it to the company. Banks love DD as it removes the need to get staff to do it manually, its in their best interest to be on the customer's side

Dolph · 19 Oct 2007 at 08:47

Bomag said:
It is very easy I phone the bank 'Hello, Virgin DD of the 12/10 is more the the billed figure' - bank says OK puts it though dispute resolution process + refunds the excess. Virgin has to prove that it is the billed amount before it gets its money back.

But in this case the DD wasn't more than the billed figure. He'd disputing a charge that's on the bill, that he initially agreed to, and has subsequently changed his mind, which isn't quite the same thing.

The bill is correct based on the agreement he made over the phone, which he has since decided to dispute despite his prior agreement, in writing.

mrochester · 19 Oct 2007 at 08:52

Dolph said:
But in this case the DD wasn't more than the billed figure. He'd disputing a charge that's on the bill, that he initially agreed to, and has subsequently changed his mind, which isn't quite the same thing.

The bill is correct based on the agreement he made over the phone, which he has since decided to dispute despite his prior agreement, in writing.

Hi, your choice or wording is wrong really.

It's a charge I had agreed to, and would be happy to pay had I left Virgin simply because I didn't want to be with them. However, I left because they broke their own terms and conditions. This is not me changing my mind, this is Virgin breaking the agreement, and me therefore getting out of it. They have no right to charge me the £50 if they've broken the agreement.

The bill is correct based on the agreement he made over the phone, which he has since decided to dispute despite his prior agreement, in writing.

There is no agreement to dispute as it is already null and void due to Virgin Media breaking it.