Alonso to leave McLaren

[1ofaKind]

Am I wrong in thinking Weber & Coults have signed for Redbull in 08 already? Heh would be good to see Alonso with Bourdais (sp) - 2 moaning gits together

If I was Alonso I'd go to whoever pays me the most cash (Toyota?) as I don't think he has a hope in hell of a race win anywhere other than the top 2 (didn't they win all the races this year between them?). Damon Hill - Arrows enuf said

If it didn't cost so much I would have benched Alonso before the end of the season and made him sit out next season. Put Parfett or someone in and give them a go and teach Alonso a lesson. Perhaps if he had punished Alonso - Lewis might have been champ eh

Unless I'm confused are Prodrive linked with Mclaren (aka B team?).

Roll on next season - T/C gone could upset the apple cart but I doubt it.

 

[Attu90]

I bet there is a clause saying both parties have to be nice to each other and cant say anything deflamitory.

 

[Dutch Guy]

I can remember Coulthard saying he will never drive for another team other than Red Bull so I seriously doubt he will go and drive for McLaren

 

[dannyjo22]

I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso has a sabatical next year. Renaults the obvious choice but I would like to see a swap for Jenson or Rosberg. Can't see the Grey corporation going for two english drivers though.

 

[rpstewart]

I'm going to stick my neck out (no doubt I'll be wrong though) and say Nico to McLaren in exchange for Mercedes engines at Williams.

Nico's German so that'll suit Mercedes and it looks highly unlikely that Prodrive will be needing any engines next year. Unfortunately that puts Williams in the sticky stuff with no signed drivers and no access to Nakajima if the Toyota link goes away. Paffett & Liuzzi possibly?

 

[sunama]

As I said throughout the whole Couglan saga why haven't they sacked alonso and pedro. They didnt sack him because of what he could make public. The same reason why Alonso is now going for free and he's now saying they had equal equipment.

He got the sack because he conspired with the man at Ferrari (Nigel Stepney) to assist in getting Ferrari info to McLaren. Effectively, this could be seen as cheating, if they used this information to gain an advantage, eg. by building parts from Ferrari research to use in the McLaren. There is no proof that this took place in 2007.

Alonso and Pedro deserved the sack, pedro isn't even an employee, hes a contractor yet he's still there.

They didnt. They knew what was going on, but were not assisting in getting the information from Ferrari to McLaren. My suspicion is that many employees at McLaren knew what was going on - does that mean that they all deserved the sack? Alonso and PDLR knew what was going on; are you so naive to believe that Hamilton did not know? And if Hamilton did know, are you suggesting he also get the sack? All because a person does not admit to having the knowledge of something, does not mean they are telling the truth.

I always thought Ron was a man of honesty. I no longer think that after this year.

He is, for the most part. But, the welfare and running of his team supersedes morals. When he found out about what was going on (he might have known from the start), he couldve informed the FIA, but didnt. He held back because he knew the possible repercussions. If it was me, I wouldve buried it. The FIA wouldve had to torture me to get the info out. Without McLaren's admittance, the case would have been very ropey.

Now, if Ron Dennis were the mastermind behind all this spying, that would be a completely different story.

Good riddance to Alonso though.

He is arguably the best driver in F1 right now. In 2005/6 he beat the MS/Ferrari combo. In 2007 he finished 1pt from the top, despite not being on speaking terms with most of the team for half the season. To put this into context, just how effective would you be at your job (whatever it is that you do) if you were not on speaking terms with most of your colleagues. It wouldve been great to see him fighting Hamilton in equal equipment next year, now that he wouldve been settled in. This time there would be no excuses. My gut feeling is that McLaren will be a shadow of the team they were this year, now that Alonso has gone.

 

[dannyjo22]

I'm going to stick my neck out (no doubt I'll be wrong though) and say Nico to McLaren in exchange for Mercedes engines at Williams.

Nico's German so that'll suit Mercedes and it looks highly unlikely that Prodrive will be needing any engines next year. Unfortunately that puts Williams in the sticky stuff with no signed drivers and no access to Nakajima if the Toyota link goes away. Paffett & Liuzzi possibly?

I think the toyota deal with williams is fairly long term. It would cost williams money they dont have to switch. I really like Nico and think he would do a great job but Williams did say he's going nowhere.

I'd love to see Jenson switched and watch Alonso try to find 6/10ths there

It will be renault or nothing though I feel. Fisi hasnt been confirmed and flav needs him back.

 

[sunama]

I wouldn't be surprised if Alonso has a sabatical next year.

I believe a sabbatical has only ever been implemented by 1 top driver in F1 - Alain Prost (1992). Apart from that, F1 drivers donot take sabaticals. Ayrton Senna was quoted as saying that what Prost did was very risky, in that he might have lost his edge during that year out and when he returned he mightve struggled to compete in the new car (with new gadgets/rules/regs) that he wasnt used to. Its a very big risk. Not to mention the potential loss of earning during that year out.

Alonso should be able to command around £15m+. Given this, would you take a year out?

Alonso could do a Schumacher and join Toyota. They have a big budget and are not winning and need a 2-time world champ (just like Ferrari, before MS joined them). He could try and make them great. Perhaps even ask Ross Brawn to join Toyota.

 

[dannyjo22]

My suspicion is that many employees at McLaren knew what was going on - does that mean that they all deserved the sack? Alonso and PDLR knew what was going on; are you so naive to believe that Hamilton did not know? And if Hamilton did know, are you suggesting he also get the sack? All because a person does not admit to having the knowledge of something, does not mean they are telling the truth..

Which is exactly what i've been saying for months. That others knew this information within mclaren. The difference is Alonso and Pedro acted on it. They cost mclaren a title and 50 million. They had decent grounds to be fired.

Yet Mclaren didnt sack them or even let pedro go. A driver without a contract anyway.

That doesnt seem strange to anyone that they kept these drivers on. Ok you could say alonso still had a shout of the title but after they shouldve fired his ass for cheating. Pedro should just have been told he was no longer needed weeks ago.

The only reason they were not is because of who else they can or could implicate.

As for your question, if they knew or acted on information from ferrari they should be sacked, but if the knowledge goes all the way to the top then they can't really be sacked. As for hamilton knowing I can't be sure but its beyond doubt the other two did.

I think Alonso is all but finished in F1. So many doors are closed to him now and as JV found out you need to be in a top team to win. He wont drag a toyota any further up the grid than 6th place finishes.

JV peed of the wrong people in the pitlane and it cost him. Alonso has done the same.

 

[dannyjo22]

I believe a sabbatical has only ever been implemented by 1 top driver in F1 - Alain Prost (1992). Apart from that, F1 drivers donot take sabaticals. .

Lauda took a two year sabatical and JV had one forced upon him. Mansell too I suppose for 93/94.

 

[sunama]

Which is exactly what i've been saying for months. That others knew this information within mclaren. The difference is Alonso and Pedro acted on it.

How did they act on it?

They cost mclaren a title and 50 million.

Nope. McLoughlan (for receiving info and storing hardcopy at his home), Stepney (for passing info) and Dennis (for whistle-blowing) were the ones who cost McLaren £50m.

As for your question, if they knew or acted on information from ferrari they should be sacked, but if the knowledge goes all the way to the top then they can't really be sacked. As for hamilton knowing I can't be sure but its beyond doubt the other two did.

So you are saying that Alonso should be sacked because he admitted knowing. While Hamilton should not be sacked because he didnt admit knowing? In otherwords, its fine to have knowledge, just make sure you dont admit it.

I think Alonso is all but finished in F1. So many doors are closed to him now and as JV found out you need to be in a top team to win. He wont drag a toyota any further up the grid than 6th place finishes.

JV peed of the wrong people in the pitlane and it cost him. Alonso has done the same.

Villeneuve isnt Alonso. Alonso is a MS/Ferrari beater. Villeneuve wasnt.

If JV was in the McLaren this year, instead of Alonso, Villeneuve wouldve got bogged down (as would most drivers) by all the support Hamilton was getting. It takes a top driver to finish 1pt of the top when he knows he is not liked by most of the team. I dont think this sort of thing has happened in the history of F1. When top drivers are not getting along with their team, they tend to struggle in the races. This was not the case with Alonso.

 

[s0ck]

it will be good to see what he can bring to a lesser team as it stands this season ie renault or red bull?

Definitely; this is what I hope will happen.

 

[sunama]

Lauda took a two year sabatical and JV had one forced upon him. Mansell too I suppose for 93/94.

Lauda - racing in a different era. Was the sabbatical not forced upon him due to his injuries? Im not familiar with his situation because I was not following F1 in his time. Fill me in please.

JV - yeah, but he didnt come back and thrash the opposition. Prost is the only guy to have gambled on taking a year out and came back just as good.

Mansell - he was racing in 1993/4 in Indycar racing, which is the American equivalent to F1. When he did return in 1994, he was a shadow of his former self. In Australia, which he won, he couldnt keep up with Hill/MS, who were pulling away at an astonishing rate. Some people said that he was asked to stay away from the, but if you have followed Mansell's career, like Senna, he doesnt ever hold back. He would rather pull away from you (so you know who's boss), then stop his car, allow you to overtake him and then follow you around the race track, like he did with Patrese and like Senna did with Berger.

Taking a sabatical is a very big gamble.

 

[dannyjo22]

Mansell - he was racing in 1993/4 in Indycar racing, which is the American equivalent to F1. When he did return in 1994, he was a shadow of his former self. In Australia, which he won, he couldnt keep up with Hill/MS, who were pulling away at an astonishing rate. Some people said that he was asked to stay away from the, but if you have followed Mansell's career, like Senna, he doesnt ever hold back. He would rather pull away from you (so you know who's boss), then stop his car, allow you to overtake him and then follow you around the race track, like he did with Patrese and like Senna did with Berger.

Taking a sabatical is a very big gamble.

Em Mansell got pole in the days when it actually meant something, he had more than enough pace to win the race. He was told by bernie and the teams to keep out of the title race as he wasn't involved. He has said that himself as have team members.

The same was agreed with Hakkinen and DC in 97. They could have easily won Suzuka and Jerez but in an agreement with the teams kept out of it.

Lauda quit to set up an airline and he had fallen out of love with the sport. When he returned he was winning like he always had.

Jv came back and was more than a match for his team mates.

I dont think it would be tough at all in this era for a driver like alonso to miss a season.

 

[rpstewart]

Prost's sabatical was forced upon him as well, he called the '91 Ferrari "a bus" during a TV interview and was promptly turfed out of the team shortly before the final race of the season. If I remember right he also got a nice payoff at the resulting tribunal.

 

[sunama]

Em Mansell got pole in the days when it actually meant something, he had more than enough pace to win the race. He was told by bernie and the teams to keep out of the title race as he wasn't involved. He has said that himself as have team members.

Mansell may have got the pole, but for whatever reason seemed to struggle during the (4) F1 races in 1994. I dont think this was intentional. I remember MS and Hill were pulling away at a furious rate in Australia - I think it was around 1s/lap. There was no need for Mansell to drop so far back, so quickly. You can bet your bottom dollar that he wasnt performing like this on purpose. It just isnt in Mansell's make-up. I remember a similar thing happened in France 1994, where he did well in qualifying, but in the race, MS and Hill were once again in a league of their own. Many commentators put this down to his poor fitness level. My own personal take on it was that he was past his best, a view shared by McLaren (1995), who terminated his contract after only a few races.

Lauda quit to set up an airline and he had fallen out of love with the sport. When he returned he was winning like he always had.

I cant really comment on Lauda as it was before my time.

Jv came back and was more than a match for his team mates.

Team mates who were not as good as Hamilton, Alonso or Schumacher. Remember, JV is content to finish 6th. For Alonso (and people like Schumacher), only a world title will do. Finishing in the middle of the pack is not something he would aspire to be doing.

I dont think it would be tough at all in this era for a driver like alonso to miss a season.

At the very least he would be missing out on a big paycheque. Especially when you consider that he is probably at the peak of his powers right now. These years wont return.

 

[sunama]

Prost's sabatical was forced upon him as well, he called the '91 Ferrari "a bus" during a TV interview and was promptly turfed out of the team shortly before the final race of the season. If I remember right he also got a nice payoff at the resulting tribunal.

But he was right. That Ferrari was terrible. Mansell left in 1990 because of Prost's shenanigans. Even that year the Ferrari was difficult to drive and setup. In the modern era, Ferrari were not really renowned for their speed and reliability. Of course, MSchumacher changed all that when he joined them.

 

[rpstewart]

Oh yeah, it was classically Italian - gorgeous to look at but totally unpredictable underneath.

 

[Bennah]

Some very intresting views in this thread.

I feel that its a shame that Alonso has gone. Its like Hamilton has won the battle, Alonso has been a little forced out. With everything that has gone on though this year, it was hard for him to stay there for another season. I bet Hamilton is very happy.

Regards, who might fill his boots at McLaren, who knows. It wont be any of the Ferrari drivers. Massa just signing a new contract. Montezemolo likes Massa a lot, he had a huge part in extending his contract. He and Kimi are there to stay for atleast a couple more seasons.

BMW drivers, I doubt would go to McLaren either. They both have signed new contracts and are aiming to bridge to the gap to the front two. I feel for both drivers, it would be best to stay at BMW for another season atleast.

There is news around that Button could well be moved into the seat at McLaren. I just wonder if he would want number 1 status like he has at Honda. I doubt it, but you never know do you so it might work out for him there.

Personally, I think Webber should be given a chance at McLaren. I like him a lot. I like his driving, attitude to the team. Hes great at qualifying and has general decent race pace but the Red Bull just has'nt been reliable enough for him which is a shame...

 

[sunama]

My vote would also goto Webber at McLaren. The problem here is though, he would be taking a risk in that if he moves and he turns out to be 0.2-0.5s/lap slower than Hamilton. If this turns out to be the case, then he would do his reputation a lot of damage.

I think it could turn out to be a risky move for him.