what if the nazi's won the 2nd world war?
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There are plenty of variables that are under question so we cannot predict about how would the chain of events have formed up until nowadays. However, the way that the Nazis imagined themselves when victorious(at least in short-term) is as controllers of the upper half of Europe(the lower half + north Afrika and part of the Middle east being for Mussolini who himself saw his victory by controlling the majority of locations within the borders of the Roman empire).
As a society, the Nazi idea was similar to that of the ancient Spartans in a sense that they thought of dividing the lands as equally as possible among the arians while the others(French,Brits to the west and Slavics to the east...whatever they determine as "non-arian" and thus "less" human) living there would be distributed as slaves and be provided with just enough to be kept alive.
Therefore the internal idea is for them to have a pure and equal society while internationally to be one of the major world powers along with the US and the Soviet Union. Needless to say, this was a bit of a utopia but then circumstances were such that the German folk was in a pretty bad post-WW1 trauma and Hitler exploited that.
Im not entirely sure though, if the world would have been more technically advanced than it is now because the brainpower that the Nazis had was already a result of the cultural development in the Germanic world and the book-burning that was occuring in the Nazi period seems rather counter-productive. Thats just my 2 cent on the issue. After all, similar thing happened with the Soviets who had many of their developments based either on scientists that developed during the years of Russian monarchy or on ideas from the West. But if one sees the level of development during the post-WW2 years, the Soviet R&D was pretty appaling in my opinion(except when it comes to millitary research but even then, this sector should have done even better given the dedication of resources that it had at its disposal)
As a society, the Nazi idea was similar to that of the ancient Spartans in a sense that they thought of dividing the lands as equally as possible among the arians while the others(French,Brits to the west and Slavics to the east...whatever they determine as "non-arian" and thus "less" human) living there would be distributed as slaves and be provided with just enough to be kept alive.
Therefore the internal idea is for them to have a pure and equal society while internationally to be one of the major world powers along with the US and the Soviet Union. Needless to say, this was a bit of a utopia but then circumstances were such that the German folk was in a pretty bad post-WW1 trauma and Hitler exploited that.
Im not entirely sure though, if the world would have been more technically advanced than it is now because the brainpower that the Nazis had was already a result of the cultural development in the Germanic world and the book-burning that was occuring in the Nazi period seems rather counter-productive. Thats just my 2 cent on the issue. After all, similar thing happened with the Soviets who had many of their developments based either on scientists that developed during the years of Russian monarchy or on ideas from the West. But if one sees the level of development during the post-WW2 years, the Soviet R&D was pretty appaling in my opinion(except when it comes to millitary research but even then, this sector should have done even better given the dedication of resources that it had at its disposal)
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I take it your referring to the baby boom? In which case the absence of the Nazis wouldn't have prevented us being born; people have other reasons to have babies.
Burnsy
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A mistaken killing of one man is considerably different to shipping off thousands of jews to death camps matey.
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With respect but what a lot of crock.
How can his death be even remotely linked to Nazism and the like ?
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After reading further into this thread it's truly shocking that anyone at all can condone what the Nazis did and then say that the world today would be a utopia. Bringerofdecay, you seem somewhat misinformed about the way, you may have been studying it for 6 years (i.e. since you were 12 so probably worthless information and overviews anyway) and the only reference you've given as to your arguments has been wikipedia which isn't exactly credible.
Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't most of the Nazi officials practically break down when Britain declared war? Similar to Stalin, who disappeared to his room and allegedly cried for a week when Germany declared war.
Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't most of the Nazi officials practically break down when Britain declared war? Similar to Stalin, who disappeared to his room and allegedly cried for a week when Germany declared war.
I think that had the Nazi's won WW2 the world today would be a safer and more peaceful place to live (for Germans at least).
Yeah they'd have probably commited quite a few atrocities over the past 60yrs, but at least the human race would be united instead of killing each other over religion etc, there is so much unrest in the world today.
Yeah they'd have probably commited quite a few atrocities over the past 60yrs, but at least the human race would be united instead of killing each other over religion etc, there is so much unrest in the world today.
It's easy to be united when you've got a gun against your head.
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Do you really think that it is religion that makes people kill each other today? Trust me,there are always reasons to kill...thats what so unique about us(humans)
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An idealistic but very unrealistic way of thinking. Life just doesn't work this way.
It's very surreal and quite scary that people are actually thinking that this could be a good thing.... :-/
Burnsy
“At least someone sees the bigger picture. I am astounded that any person can look on a Nazi regime as utopia.!”
It could have become like a Utopia in the very long term. Yes in the short team it would have been extra violent and bloody with far too many deaths.
Now I don’t agree with what they did and I don’t think the world today would be a utopia. But in theory in another 100 to 200 years we might have been better of it they did win and conquered the entire world.
Let’s just pretend they somehow won and conquered the entire world over time. Forgot about the first 100 years where everything’s bloody and there are tons of deaths. Your now left in a few 100 years a united world all speaking the same language or at last having the same second language, All money is the same improving trade, borders are open with free travel, no wars or counties fighting. Everyone’s similar so little reason to fight.
If someone could conquer the entire world and hold it together over time one possibility is everywhere would turn into a super large single county, current counties would become states. Science, health and standard of living would advance super fast far beyond what we would have otherwise.
Of course there’s always the possibility it falls to part and splits into tons of new county’s.
It could have become like a Utopia in the very long term. Yes in the short team it would have been extra violent and bloody with far too many deaths.
Now I don’t agree with what they did and I don’t think the world today would be a utopia. But in theory in another 100 to 200 years we might have been better of it they did win and conquered the entire world.
Let’s just pretend they somehow won and conquered the entire world over time. Forgot about the first 100 years where everything’s bloody and there are tons of deaths. Your now left in a few 100 years a united world all speaking the same language or at last having the same second language, All money is the same improving trade, borders are open with free travel, no wars or counties fighting. Everyone’s similar so little reason to fight.
If someone could conquer the entire world and hold it together over time one possibility is everywhere would turn into a super large single county, current counties would become states. Science, health and standard of living would advance super fast far beyond what we would have otherwise.
Of course there’s always the possibility it falls to part and splits into tons of new county’s.
Sounds a bit boring if you ask me
Hardly the same mate.
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/camps/aktion.reinhard/treblinka/shoah-suchomel-transcript
Interview with a guard who worked at Treblinka (big extermination camp. Yes, a camp solely made to "process" as many humans as possible).
Yeah, a real paradise we would have experienced if we were occupied by Nazis.
Read some history books lads...
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The Nazis ruled through fear and fear never leads to a utopia.
If you criticised the government or the Nazi party the the Gestapo would pay you a visit with a warning. Second time around you disappeared. Also the Gestapo did very little of their own spying on the populace as they let the public do it for them who would report back. It was not unheard of for children to shop their parents for speaking out against Nazi rule because thats how some children were indoctrinated through quasi-military organisations such as the Hitler Youth.
If you criticised the government or the Nazi party the the Gestapo would pay you a visit with a warning. Second time around you disappeared. Also the Gestapo did very little of their own spying on the populace as they let the public do it for them who would report back. It was not unheard of for children to shop their parents for speaking out against Nazi rule because thats how some children were indoctrinated through quasi-military organisations such as the Hitler Youth.
“The ends don't justify the means in that kinda scenario.”
That’s debatable. By losing a relatively small amount of life and some suffering in the short term. You saving 1000x more life and have less overall suffering in the long term along, with improving quality of life. I say relatively as over the time span I talked about less people die and suffer if they won and everything worked out. Surly less people dieing and suffering over a 1000 year time span is better?
Think of it like this. 1 real bad war to end all wars. The next 100+ wars that would have happened don’t happen and all the death and suffering from those 100+ wars never happens. Instead everyone lives happily with a good quality of life. By refusing to let those people suffer who would have by the Nazi wining you’re causing countless more people to suffer in the longer team.
What if 100 years of violence lead to 10,000+ years of peace as everyone was united? Yes that’s a big what if, but it is a possibility.
Now unless I was 100% sure the world would end up a better place I wouldn’t change history one bit. Just saying what if…
“Yeah, a real paradise we would have experienced if we were occupied by Nazis.”
Governments change over time. What if after uniting the world over time (100’s of years) they turned into a Government for the people? Only as the world is united the Government can do far more better things for the people then if the world was split into fighting factions like today.
I dont agree with what they did but I can see one possibility is the world ends up a better place. Another is it ends up x10 worse.
That’s debatable. By losing a relatively small amount of life and some suffering in the short term. You saving 1000x more life and have less overall suffering in the long term along, with improving quality of life. I say relatively as over the time span I talked about less people die and suffer if they won and everything worked out. Surly less people dieing and suffering over a 1000 year time span is better?
Think of it like this. 1 real bad war to end all wars. The next 100+ wars that would have happened don’t happen and all the death and suffering from those 100+ wars never happens. Instead everyone lives happily with a good quality of life. By refusing to let those people suffer who would have by the Nazi wining you’re causing countless more people to suffer in the longer team.
What if 100 years of violence lead to 10,000+ years of peace as everyone was united? Yes that’s a big what if, but it is a possibility.
Now unless I was 100% sure the world would end up a better place I wouldn’t change history one bit. Just saying what if…
“Yeah, a real paradise we would have experienced if we were occupied by Nazis.”
Governments change over time. What if after uniting the world over time (100’s of years) they turned into a Government for the people? Only as the world is united the Government can do far more better things for the people then if the world was split into fighting factions like today.
I dont agree with what they did but I can see one possibility is the world ends up a better place. Another is it ends up x10 worse.
I reckon I'm going to sit and have a chin wag with my Great Grandad over this matter. He's still alive and in his 90's. A shard of shrapnel is still lodged in his back today, some of the same shrapnel that blew his mate up stood beside him. I'll ask him why the hell they bothered when the world would have clearly been such a fantastic Utopia had we allowed the Nazi's to just win. I bet those views would really cheer him up ...lol
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I would love to hear his opinion word for word, I really would. Please do ask him and report back.
I have sat and spoken to him about the past many a time but it's really difficult for him. The distress in his face barely describes the pain and hardship him and his fellow men must have endured. I don't know how he would react should I mention to him the views expressed by some of our members. As a wild guess I would imagine he would be enraged and deeply saddened. He would also mutter the usual wise man's response that "this country has gone to ****"
I don't know how it would have turned out, but I bet my bottom dollar that a lot of historical revisionism would have taken place. We probably wouldn't have even found out about 50% of the attrocities that had been committed.
Makes you wonder what attrocities being committed by our own government now pass underneath our noses... after all, its the winners who get to report history...
Makes you wonder what attrocities being committed by our own government now pass underneath our noses... after all, its the winners who get to report history...