So evolution then and not a gift from God?
The Holy Quran.
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So evolution then and not a gift from God?
Soldato
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I am in no way here to troll or bash those with religious views. I am an atheist, but have an open mind. Could you please expand on what you have said above Nitefly? Im wondering why you think that religion can't be proved is a misunderstanding? Are you saying that it can be proved?
When I was younger, I like the OP used to live reading religious stories. I can remember asking the school to get in more religious books as I managed to get through all the ones they had. However I saw them, and still do as stories. There is very little evidence to suggest that they are anything more than loose interpretations of events, combined with moral guidance. I like and agree with a lot of the messages in the religious books. Much of its common sense, but still good to read non the less, however they shouldn't be believed word for word. The stories were often simply a way of getting a moral message across as opposed to being about the story itself.
Soldato
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They are whatever you choose to believe them to be. But I was talking about religious texts which have far deeper meaning than the literal.
Maybe because the Quran contains all the relevent stories from the old testement, it makes the old testement pointless, since it contains the good bits of that plus other stuff.
Anyway, it's irrelevant to this thread whether religious books are just a bunch of fictional stories or whether they are the word of god. Either way it doesn't mean they aren't an interesting read. The fact that you believe a book to be completely made up isn't really a good reason not to read it.
I personally don't believe that the Quran or the Bible are anything divine. To me they are a collection of folklore and some personal accounts of events. If I had more time and more patience I'd probably give them a read. I've read a bit of genesis and it seems pretty interesting. Unfortunately the way it's worded makes it a little hard to follow, but that's pretty unavoidable given the amount of times it's been translated.
I think it is fair to say the concepts which revolve around most religious ideas can not be proved or disproved, at least not by any current human observational methods which we use.
I am very reluctant to drag this thread into a direction which we have visted in Speakers Corner on several instances recently, so I will leave it there. Not that there is much more to be said
And your proof is?
hahaha it doesnt make sense becasue you dont want to widen your knowledge. You can only judge something if you have read the facts and then you decide.
You cant decide something like that by just sitting behind your PC wasting your time.
EDIT: I also think you comment is unappropraite !!!!
Well, beliefs without evidence may be dismissed without evidence, yet I concede there is a certain pleasure in studying religion. As an aside, I recommend highly the second book of Kings, chapter two, verses 22-24 as an edifying insight into the moral character of the Abrahamic God.
As for the Koran, The NJ Dawood (UK Penguin) edition is fairly well respected. I've read three versions in English and have rudimentary Arabic, and am assured that this is a fair translation.
It is somewhat convenient to find the sum of human wisdom condensed to a single volume, that has not one word in praise of man's intelligence. Yet such is the mystery of the One True God whose sonorous voice booms in the skulls of the pious.
Couldn't resist it. Bah.
I am very reluctant to drag this thread into a direction which we have visted in Speakers Corner on several instances recently, so I will leave it there. Not that there is much more to be said [/QUOTE]
No, come on. Fight, fight fight! The Christians will forgive us, at the very least
[/QUOTE]No, come on. Fight, fight fight! The Christians will forgive us, at the very least
Sorry, I don't feel a discussion of the values or truths of any religion belongs in a thread where someone is simply asking for a good version of text.No, come on. Fight, fight fight! The Christians will forgive us, at the very least
You mix your points with crap, which completely undermines them. There are two major problems:I've seen several interviews with high-ranking Muslims who state that the Quran is the true word of God as it is the most recent of the teachings, making all others before it irrelevant. Why then, is the Old Testement included?
You place so much faith in an illiterate peadophile who's claims of divinity are suspect at least, who has been claimed to preach peace but choose to wage war. A bit like the idiots who choose to preach hatred today.
PS, yes Michael wielded the sword but in the battle against the fallen, Gabriel was quite handy too.
i) Mohammed never claimed to be divine. That would be so completely contrary to Islam that it's a ridiculous display of ignorance on your part. One god, indivisible, is a core tenet of Islam. It's not like Christianity and the sort-of-trinity.
ii) Mohammed married a 9 year old. Which doesn't prove anything - marriage amongst people with money and/or power was usually about something other than sex or love. Children being married was routine in many places until recently. It wasn't sexual. It was social, financial and political. Marriage was a tool for joining families, for trading social status and money (e.g. rich merchant marries poor aristocrat), defusing conflict between countries, guaranteeing financial support for someone...etc. Marriages between European royalty were sometimes arranged before one of the spouses was even born!
As correct as your points are, it is next to useless to respond to a poster like that as, judging by the language used, they have pretty much made up their mind - not to mention it is all going OT.
OK, my bad. Thanks for the good sense and tolerance.
Im pretty sure if you went a mosque and asked for a copy of the quaran you would get one for free and not pay a penny. We had an "Saudi Arabia Day" at work, because we have so many clients, and one of the stalls they had were giving out free copies, they saudi guy told me that people shouldnt have to pay to read the quaran.
What I think we need is to do away with all organised religions. I don't dispute that moses, jesus and mohammad may have been devinely inspired but let's face it, in the best part of 3000 years none of them have managed to leave behind a legacy that they preached.
All three of the abrahamic faiths are upto there eyeballs in blood, power, murder, exploitation and countless other evils they claim they're here to solve.
If you want to experience God/Jehova/Allah then why do it through second hand spirituality? Meditate and explore your own consciousness.
Also strange that many of these religions are against the use of drugs but all the prophets communication with the devine would have come through altered states of consciusness and the most common and quickest way of achieving these states is with either magic mushrooms or ayahuasca.
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Islam has the same text since day one, hence it is followed, no alteration, no flavours and no preservitives.
Am not going to answer all the insults people have posted, I would have expected the Moderators to at least speak to them and ask them to be respectful.
One of the miracles of Quran is stories of pervious prophets, eg Jesus and the rest. How can possibly Muhammad PBUH know all the stories that the Jews and the Christains also agree on.
Religon is a quide line to life. eg:
Do not kill
Do not take drugs
Do not steal
etc
It is everyones resposibility to understand something before they can jude it.
Islam means peace and they way it is now followed is not true.
I have a question. Would I go to hell for my lack of faith if I was born in a remote place on Earth and lived my entire life there having no contact with anyone but myself and nature? Completely shut off from everything and having no way of knowing about holy figures and how to please God...