Not quite that simple, you really think clubs wait til January and then identify players and agree deals for them? If Rafa doesn't know what he has to spend then how can he decide who to target?
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Not quite that simple, you really think clubs wait til January and then identify players and agree deals for them? If Rafa doesn't know what he has to spend then how can he decide who to target?
What I dont get is that if the spending is linked to CL games continueing this season (seams reasonable) - why Hicks and Gillett cant just say "When CL quali from the group stages is confirmed you will get £x" - then there is absolutely no question, if they dont have anything to spend (because of increased interest payments for stadium etc) then say that
(any secret discussions with players/agents -all this chatter could potentially put them off)]
No one can work out potential transfers in two or three weeks, it doesnt work that way imo
(any secret discussions with players/agents -all this chatter could potentially put them off)]
No one can work out potential transfers in two or three weeks, it doesnt work that way imo
Well G&H said they'll hold talks in December, which still gives rafa weeks to plan who he wants to buy.
I'm sure he has an eye on a few targets already anyway, not knowing exactly how much he has to spend doesn't stop him looking at players, in the end he'll either have the money or not. Unless of course G&H decide to put forward next to no money but I doubt that'll happen.
Its not just a case of identifying the players, clubs will be already negotiating these deals and will be completing the formalities come the new year, if the problem is that Rafa doesn't know what he's got to spend then he can't do this.
Rafa complained about this in the past, saying that failure to act quickly cost us players and supposidly is worried about missing out on Ezequiel Garay as well as 2 youngsters from South America.
I believe this approx your player sales and buying over the summer
In
Torres - £22mill
Benayoun - £5mill
Babel - £13.5mill
Out
Bellamy - £7.5mill
Gonzalez - £4mill
Cisse - £6mill
Garcia -£4mill
So that is around £19mill they have spent this summer on players and on top of that are gonna get finance and put some of their money in to building a £60k stadium. With the global credit crunch it has made it harder for them to borrow money at an attractive interest rate which has added to their problems because they need money ASAP to start on the stadium which is the No.1 priority. However they don't want to pay silly money on interest either so they are in a tricky situation. So what does Rafa do, ask for more money and then moan in the press when this doesn't happen. He has done this before as well, I remember him moaning at the end of last season about the owners having to make funds available and even had the nerve to moan about how we had signed Walcott and Diaby and how Liverpool couldn't afford it. This was despite Moores putting up personal guarantees to sign Kuyt. I've mentioned this before but how about him taking a leaf out of Wenger's book and just getting on with his job? Did Wenger moan and complain when there was little money around for us to sign players? No he understood the situation and got on with his job and now knows if he needs money to sign a player the club can provide him with money. Liverpool have spent more than enough in the past 5 years to mount a serious title challenge and right now don't even look close. He needs to concentrate more on what he already has because he has a huge squad as it is, maybe he needs to rotate them more to keep them fresh
Firstly i think our stadium is costing a little bit more than £60k
I think you have misunderstood what Rafa's believed concerns are, Rafa isn't specifically concerned with the amount of money he has but not knowing how much he has and the speed at which negotiations are being done, this was the same concern after the CL final.
Also about the Walcott/Diaby bit, were they signed to go straight into your first team? If not then his comment stands, he wasn't able to spend £12m on a first team player let alone on a 16 year old and the amounts the likes of Diaby and Denilson cost he was having to buy first team players.
Firstly i think our stadium is costing a little bit more than £60k
I think you have misunderstood what Rafa's believed concerns are, Rafa isn't specifically concerned with the amount of money he has but not knowing how much he has and the speed at which negotiations are being done, this was the same concern after the CL final.
Also about the Walcott/Diaby bit, were they signed to go straight into your first team? If not then his comment stands, he wasn't able to spend £12m on a first team player let alone on a 16 year old and the amounts the likes of Diaby and Denilson cost he was having to buy first team players.
heh slight typo there
Costing you £400mill IIRC?My point is I don't think Rafa needs to moan because right now the owners have much more urgent concerns which they need to address urgently, if the credit crunch gets worse they will struggle to raise the money and all their plans are down the toilet. Why is Rafa in urgent need of money in January when he has already spent a fair bit in the summer?
Walcott didn't cost us £12mill, Walcott cost around £5mill rising to £12mill whereas Diaby cost around £2mill and Denilson £3mill. Hardly vast sums of money on youth players who will hopefully come good over the years. I felt he was taking a cheap at Arsenal and the money we had available while ignoring all the years we had to deal with having very little to spend and Wenger got through it without moaning.
The stadium is supposed to be costing at least £400m but like all stadiums i expect it will go over budget.heh slight typo there
My point is I don't think Rafa needs to moan because right now the owners have much more urgent concerns which they need to address urgently, if the credit crunch gets worse they will struggle to raise the money and all their plans are down the toilet. Why is Rafa in urgent need of money in January when he has already spent a fair bit in the summer?
Walcott didn't cost us £12mill, Walcott cost around £5mill rising to £12mill whereas Diaby cost around £2mill and Denilson £3mill. Hardly vast sums of money on youth players who will hopefully come good over the years. I felt he was taking a cheap at Arsenal and the money we had available while ignoring all the years we had to deal with having very little to spend and Wenger got through it without moaning.
I know what you're saying about the Credit Crunch being of more concern to the Yanks (they've already have to come up with £100m of there own money more than they wanted) and that along with our progression will have an affect on how much money Rafa will have to spend but this problem has gone back for a while now. Rafa hasn't been happy with the clubs (Parry in particular) seemingly sluggish approach to negotiations, 2 perfect examples of this; Benfica wanted £10-12m for Simao but we initially were only willing to pay £8m and we haggled all summer then at the last minute agreed to the £10-12m only for Benfica to turn around and say its too late and they want £17m as they wouldnt have time to buy a replacement to appease the fans, we then had the chance to sign Walcott for as little as £3m when we signed Crouch but the club wanted him to leave and then pay a few £100k in compo and then come January we offered the £3m but couldn't match your bid.
Regardless of how much your initial fee for Walcott was you still committed yourself to £12m and at that time Rafa had only ever went over £10m for Alonso. We (thankfully) couldn't afford £1.5m for Lucas Neil who would have been in our first team squad let alone on 16 year olds. Its easy to say we shouldn't have signed X and signed Denilso/Diaby etc instead but the players we were signing were needed to go straight into our side.
You're right about it being undignified which is why i don't understand the statement by the yanks, prior to that nobody was the wiser.
Like you say we're not going to go out and spend £50m in January but we didn't spent that much in the summer, the reason we could spend £20m on Torres and £11m on Babel was because unlike previous summers we weren't having to sign 6 or 7 players but were only signing 2 or 3 for the first team (spent roughly £20m net, only around £5m more than usual).
heh, well you've just lit this one up when people starting waking up.
Well it's true. He had it with Mourinho and Chelsea.
Then he had it with Man Utd about Kick-Off times.
Now Arsenal and money.
The guy is running out of excuses, the guy does a whole lot of yapping and not much sense making.
Then he had it with Man Utd about Kick-Off times.
Now Arsenal and money.
The guy is running out of excuses, the guy does a whole lot of yapping and not much sense making.
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Perfect man for the England job then.
the stupidity of some posts really do make me laugh, how could he have fielded his strongest side for every game when Agger, Alonso ,Torres Gerrrard have had long time injuries to name a few? we are unbeaten and have a game in hand over man ure and chelski which would put us only 3pts behind and 2pts ahead respectively , hmm oh yes crisis i see what you mean.
Money, well we got most of last years cash from our Champs league run where we got to our second final in 3 years under Rafas excellent management. I cant seem to remember Maureen or Fergle doing the same even though they have spent extreme mounts of cash . Babel, Torres and Benny have all given a nice return so far, and with Voronin also chipping a few in.
Utd have spent what ? 15m Carrick, 17m Harg, 30m Nani/Anderson ?tevez compared to the net £25 total we have, and like i said were only a few pts behind and yet to play against each other. You see Rafa in his 3-4yrs has achieved more than Fergie and Wenger did in their first few years.
How many points have you dropped in the last 9-10 games though - at a guess ten? When Arsenal have dropped four (to You and Man Utd in the draws) and Man Utd have dropped only two (yet to play you of course)
Yes you had a great start but you have drawn games you should have won (even though you havent yet lost)
A few key players and you are just an average team - yet Man Utd have swapped around players (Rooney, Saha, Scholes, Hargreaves, Rio, Vidic Evra and Brown have all missed matches) in that 9-10 match period and yet the only points dropped were at the Emirates!!!
(Remeber we arent talking since the beginning of the season, as I am the first to admit we played badly for the first 3 games at least, and only scored a goal a game for a few after that)
Liverpool have a great match and then a so-so one (and even a really awful one sometimes), if you can get into a decent run you should be ok, but its heavily dependent on injuires and form to a few players.
When was the last time you actually fought for the Domestic league beyond Jan? You may be a great cup team over a few games - how about performing over 38?
Carrrick was paid for by RVN sale as well as 1/2 the cash from Chelsea for Obi, as well as the other £6m for Obi this summer we sold Smith and Richardson to make £18m in total (OH paid for) and while we have agreed to pay that much (supposedly) for Nani and Anderson, you can bet we havent paid anywhere near that amount yet - and can you honestly say any of that lot havent performed? When each of them have been called up they have easily added to the strength of the team.
£5m was the loan cost of Tevez, so in total what we have actually paid out is likely to be less than £20m also (even though we may well have another £15m max to find at some point for two seemingly worthwhile players)
Yeah Fergie's first few years where barren to say the least - but 10 league titles in about 14 years is pretty phenomenal by anyone's standards - and while I hate Mourinho, you cant argue with what he managed in two seasons (even if he didnt ever manage to even get to the CL final)
You mean like pretty much every other manager at the top of the league?
Really? When was the last time Ferguson went complaining about Benitez or Liverpool? Wenger of Arsenal (I think you'll find Ferguson has been praising him), or Mourinho and Chelsea (again, a lot of praise).
Wenger hasn't complained a whole lot either, nor for that matter has Avram Grant.
I love the comment of 'stupid comments' earlier in the post, then Liverpool fans come out with this pearl. I think most are too young or just being naive in not remembering that when Ferguson took charge of Man Utd we were in trouble, relegation looming and a team that were past it or not performing, he also has little money (though he did have to break the transfer record for Pallister), but he made a few (note, not loads!) of buys every season until the team was transformed.
Ferguson doesn't get enough credit for what he achieved in his first few years, his squad development and he's still doing that today.
And all this after breaking up the Old Firm in Scotland and winning the double up there with Aberdeen. So no, I don't think you could say Benitez has really done any better. He's had a lot of money at Liverpool and bought a lot of money. Man Utd may have spent more, but we make a LOT more through better sponsorships, more worldwide fans and a good stadium.
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