The French have got the right idea

[clv101]

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007/12/france-to-insti.html#more

France to Institute Vehicle Feebate Based on CO2 Emissions; $7,300 Bonus for Electric Cars

7 December 2007

France’s Ministry of Ecology (Ministère de l’écologie, du développement et de l’aménagement durables) announced a new feebate system based on CO2 emissions for new vehicle purchases.

Under the scheme, a bonus will be paid to purchasers of new passenger cars emitting less than 130 g CO2/km, which now represents about 30% of sales. The bonus will be supplemented by an extra payment when the acquisition of the vehicle is accompanied by the scrapping of a vehicle that is more than 15 years old. Conversely, buyers of new vehicles that emit more than 160 g CO2/km will pay a penalty. This will affect approximately 25% of new vehicles sold. Buyers of vehicles emitting between 130-160g CO2 will not receive a bonus nor will they pay a tax. This “neutral zone” will apply to about 45% of vehicle purchases.

The payments and the penalties are based on a sliding scale—the less (or more) carbon dioxide emitted, the greater the payment or penalty, respectively. The threshold points for payments or penalties will advance 5 g CO2/km every two years to encourage ongoing development efforts.

To encourage the development of extremely low emission vehicles—especially electric vehicles, the government has a special bonus of €5,000 (US$7,300) for the purchase of vehicles emitting less than 60 g CO2/km."

Table of bonus and penalty payments at the link. Bonus of 5000 euro for electric, 1000 euro for <100gCO2/km. Penalty of 2600 euro for 250gCO2/km+.

Ireland are also introducing a 2000 euro annual tax and a whopping 36% purchase price tax on 225gCO/km+ cars from July 1st 2008.

This is the kind of policy we need in the UK.

 

[Dolph]

That's not a good idea, it's more money grabbing under the pretense of enviromentalism

Mind you, what else can you expect from the french apart from surrender to a noisy group

This is not the kind of policy we need in the UK, we have enough money stolen from us by the state as it is, and it wouldn't actually change anything at all.

 

[Fr0dders]

That's not a good idea, it's more money grabbing under the pretense of enviromentalism

seconded

what nobody seems to realise, is charging people more wont save the environment.

its like carbon offsetting. Its pointless

money doesnt stop the fact that theres all this Co2 around, which plenty of Scientists argue has nothing to do with it.

Let us not forget, that the whole world was convinced the earth was flat, and some idiot who knew nothing said it was round.

just because "everybody says it does" doesnt mean it's right.

 

[Dogbreath]

Under the scheme, a bonus will be paid to purchasers of new passenger cars emitting less than 130 g CO2/km, which now represents about 30% of sales. The bonus will be supplemented by an extra payment when the acquisition of the vehicle is accompanied by the scrapping of a vehicle that is more than 15 years old.

And how far will this new vehicle have to be driven before it's own emissions and the CO2 emitted during it's manufacture are less than the 15 year old vehicles over the same distance?

 

[clv101]

That's not a good idea, it's more money grabbing under the pretense of enviromentalism

That's only looking at part of the scheme - 30% of cars qualify for a bonus payment. That's hardly money grabbing.

 

[Dolph]

That's only looking at part of the scheme - 30% of cars qualify for a bonus payment. That's hardly money grabbing.

Are you saying the scheme is revenue neutral? I doubt it very much.

As for the cars that qualify, what about the fact that most of them are horrible and no use on the motorway, or if you have a family, or if you have to tow regularly etc etc?

 

[[TW]Fox]

This is the kind of policy we need in the UK.

What, encouraging the scrapping of older cars so we can buy new cars, becuase scrapping working cars and building a brand new car from scratch is environmentally awesome?

I sometimes wonder what planet you ecowarriors are on

 

[Dolph]

What, encouraging the scrapping of older cars so we can buy new cars, becuase scrapping working cars and building a brand new car from scratch is environmentally awesome?

I sometimes wonder what planet you ecowarriors are on

I don't know which planet it is, but I want some of the drugs they have

Well, unless they turn you into a sanctimonious muppet, which is a possible side effect based on observations of most ecowarriors...

 

[Jonny69]

How does g CO2/km relate to mpg? What is the conversion factor?

 

[Dolph]

How does g CO2/km relate to mpg? What is the conversion factor?

Generally cars with better MPG will have lower CO2 emissions, but there isn't a definite conversion factor as it depends on how efficently the car burns the fuel and so on.

It's good to know that governments concentrate on something that effects less than 1% of the nations carbon output though, it's vitally important that, and not at all money grabbing or pointless

 

[[TW]Fox]

It's good to know that governments concentrate on something that effects less than 1% of the nations carbon output though, it's vitally important that, and not at all money grabbing or pointless

We know thats what the government like though, proof can be found through their road safety policy, where 95% of effort is concentrated on the cause of less than 10% of accidents

 

[Dolph]

We know thats what the government like though, proof can be found through their road safety policy, where 95% of effort is concentrated on the cause of less than 10% of accidents

Indeed, money creates safety and heals the enviroment, you heard it here first people

 

[mrthingyx]

seconded

what nobody seems to realise, is charging people more wont save the environment.

its like carbon offsetting. Its pointless

money doesnt stop the fact that theres all this Co2 around, which plenty of Scientists argue has nothing to do with it.

Let us not forget, that the whole world was convinced the earth was flat, and some idiot who knew nothing said it was round.

just because "everybody says it does" doesnt mean it's right.

Just to be really awkward, it was a common idea that the world was round at Columbus' time... he just got lucky in the history books.

I have no problem with stiffing drivers of high CO2 cars. They can afford the car so they can afforrd the tax.

My problem lies with what the government does with the money. If it were ploughed straight back into the road system or dedicated (transparently) to research/applications that reduce pollution (light/noise/etc.), that's what I don't mind. It's when it's done in the name of environmentalism and just goes to the general coffer that I get irritated.

Hell, subsidise the public transport in this country, because I currently have to pay just as much to catch the train into work and be uncomfortable for twenty minutes both way as I do to drive and park my car at work. And that takes me less time door-to-door.

 

[clv101]

I'm no ecowarrior - I'm motivated by national economic and energy security. Those issues demand we improve the efficiency of the country's vehicle fleet.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I have no problem with stiffing drivers of high CO2 cars. They can afford the car so they can afforrd the tax..

Should a driver of a Ford Mondeo 2.0 Auto be stiffed?

Not all of us with high C02 cars paid tens of thousands for them.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I'm no ecowarrior - I'm motivated by national economic and energy security. Those issues demand we improve the efficiency of the country's vehicle fleet.

I wonder you feel the only way to do this is to constantly restrict vehicle choice, offer incentives to drivers of rubbish cars and suchlike?

I suggest we could reduce fuel consumption considerably by having more traffic road offers. Why?

Company cars. Every day, millions of UK motorists drive around in cars which are economical. Or at least, they would be, if the driver was paying the fuel.

Who hasn't been overtaken by an IT tech in a white Focus Estate doing 100mph? Bet it isnt doing 55mpg..

They dont care about economy becuase it isnt their fuel. You should see the ridiculous MPG figures some company car drivers manage. Finding a solution to THAT problem would do more than all this 'buy a crap diesel citycar' piffle.

I'm fed up of paying high road tax because of my cars C02 emissions when I'd wager that my car outputs LESS C02 than your average Focus. Why? Becuase I don't stick tens of thousands of miles on it every year.

 

[Dolph]

Just to be really awkward, it was a common idea that the world was round at Columbus' time... he just got lucky in the history books.

I have no problem with stiffing drivers of high CO2 cars. They can afford the car so they can afforrd the tax.

My problem lies with what the government does with the money. If it were ploughed straight back into the road system or dedicated (transparently) to research/applications that reduce pollution (light/noise/etc.), that's what I don't mind. It's when it's done in the name of environmentalism and just goes to the general coffer that I get irritated.

Hell, subsidise the public transport in this country, because I currently have to pay just as much to catch the train into work and be uncomfortable for twenty minutes both way as I do to drive and park my car at work. And that takes me less time door-to-door.

Does my S3 being driven a few hundred miles a month do more enviromental damage than a lower emissions car being driven 1000 miles a week?

What if I only use my car at weekends?

That's why taxes on purchases are stupid. We already pay for higher fuel consumption in vastly excessive fuel taxes, so why penalise people again for buying something with no idea on how it is going to be used?

I'll be buying a new second car soon which will be low emissions because it's going to be a townish runabout for trundling to and from work and stuff. Should I be penalised for owning the S3 even if I don't use it all the time?

 

[[TW]Fox]

I'll be buying a new second car soon which will be low emissions because it's going to be a townish runabout for trundling to and from work and stuff. Should I be penalised for owning the S3 even if I don't use it all the time?

Dont do that, use the S3

 

[Dolph]

Dont do that, use the S3

I get fed up with the hordes of unwashed who chase me around shouting about dolphins

 

[Jonny69]

Generally cars with better MPG will have lower CO2 emissions, but there isn't a definite conversion factor as it depends on how efficently the car burns the fuel and so on.

It must be a direct inverse relationship, if the car burns the fuel inefficiently then the mpg will suffer as a result. Just wondered what the conversion factor is.